Tithe

[JerryL]

Helloooooo,

Are we forgetting the the tithe pre-dates the law AND the covenant between God and Abraham. In fact, it was tithing that provoked the first murder. The tithe is a constant scriptural principle that ALL Christ-Followers are expected to follow. God knew that if He did not include the tithe in the law the ignorance of the Jews would not allowed them to tithe and we would be talking about tithe as something way different than what God meant for it to be. As for the %, the figure of 10% is just the starting point, not the exact spec that God required. In fact, in the nation of Israel the expected level of giving was never as low as 10% but rather closer to 23% as I have seen some calculate.

The New Testament teaches tithe for the Christ-Follower to be out of the aboundance of what God has blessed them with. An example would be the church at Jerusalem in which most of the membership sold all that they had and then turned the profits of the sales over to the church to be used to help those during the hard times they were experienceing.

Paul taught the Corinthian church to tithe as part of the milk he was re-teaching them in his letter to that church. Tithe is a starting point for the N.T. Christ-Follower that is to be given with a joyful attitude and a right heart. It is to be from what you are blessed by, as I teach our people, if you do not recieve an increase for a week or a month you are loosed from the instruction to tithe but we are never released from the obligation to give of our abundance.

We are to also understand that we are not giving to the pastor, church board or budget requirements, what we give, we give to God only. If we give for any other reason then we are not giving for the right reasons. We are to give as a return to God for what HE blessed us with, the church is just the name of the bank God accepts payment as.

One pastor said once "The tithe is the debt that we owe, while the gift is the seed that we sow." There is much truth in that statement.

As to the OP, I give according to what I am able. I give more than 10%, I take the total and figure the 10% then round up, then give another $40 or so to missions and other funds. This is where I start from, sometimes God leads me to do much more than this, so I listen.

The Levirate law pre-dates the law also as well as blood sacrifices, let me know how your Church likes you doing those things. Please show me Chapter and verse where Paul was teaching the Corinthian Church to tithe. I can't find it.

 

[JerryL]

“Parallels to Tithing in the Old Testament
The Levirate Law: Genesis 38 and Deuteronomy 25:5-10
Definition: if brothers live together and one of them dies without an heir, one of the surviving brothers
takes his widow to wife, and the first-born of this new marriage is regarded by law as the son of the
deceased
Purpose: so that the line of the deceased brother does not end
Jesus: The Sadducees asked Jesus a question concerning levirate marriage and the resurrection (Matt
22:23–28; Mark 12:18–27; Luke 20:27–38). This question gave Jesus every opportunity to abrogate or
abolish the Levirate Law.
Levirate Law and Tithe Laws Compared


Introduced without reasoning/justification: levirate YES tithe YES

Practiced before the Mosaic law: levirate YES tithe YES

Obligatory before the Mosaic law: levirate YES tithe NO

Widespread; origin unknown : levirate YES tithe YES

Codified, with changes, into the Mosaic law: levirate YES tithe YES

Practiced outside the Pentateuch (in OT) : levirate YES tithe YES

Received a tract in the Mishnah: levirate YES tithe YES

New Testament never explicitly abrogates: levirate YES tithe YES

Jesus discussed and never abrogated: levirate YES tithe YES

“Therefore, the existence of a practice prior to the giving of the Mosaic law as well as
subsequent to it does not necessarily prove that it was meant to continue into the new covenant period.
The assertion is inadequate that, because tithing existed prior to the giving of the Mosaic law, it must
continue to be practiced by God’s people in later periods.”

Written by Dr. David Croteau

 

[JerryL]

QUOTE
The New Testament teaches tithe for the Christ-Follower to be out of the aboundance of what God has blessed them with. An example would be the church at Jerusalem in which most of the membership sold all that they had and then turned the profits of the sales over to the church to be used to help those during the hard times they were experienceing.
UNQUOTE

I find it funny how you reword and change stories around to suit your need. They didn't give the abundance to the Church, they were the Church. They sold all they had and put it all in one kitty and lived off of it as in a communion. That is, if you are talking about the story in Acts, if not, tell me where so I can find out about where you get this.

 

[Aaron]

And yet the only giving that Christ commended was the widow's mites. She did not give out of her abundance, but out of her need.

 

[drfuss]

jshurley04 writes:
"The New Testament teaches tithe for the Christ-Follower to be out of the aboundance of what God has blessed them with. An example would be the church at Jerusalem in which most of the membership sold all that they had and then turned the profits of the sales over to the church to be used to help those during the hard times they were experienceing."

drfuss: It appears that you have included giving as a part of tithing. They are two different things. Tithing is being required to pay the 10%. Giving is a freewill offering. Many of us give more than 10%, but none of it is a required tithe.

 

[pops]

I wonder if we are as strict in the meaning of words as we are in Tithe vs Offering?

 

[jshurley04]

The Levirate law pre-dates the law also as well as blood sacrifices, let me know how your Church likes you doing those things. Please show me Chapter and verse where Paul was teaching the Corinthian Church to tithe. I can't find it.

What in the world are you talking about, what is a Levirate? or its law?

You cannot find where Paul is teaching it because you have no desire to find it so that you can justify your position.

e. Jesus taught it – Matt. 23:23
f. Paul explained it – I Cor. 16:1-2
g. Experience proves it – Luke 6:38
h. Love demands it – Matt. 6:21

Here is a snip of what I have taught my people. Ultimately, the tithe is required just as keeping the law is required. The only difference now is that we keep it not as a whippin' stick but out of a heart of love. When we love God as He commanded and love the world as Christ commanded, then all this stuff is what we do because it is not only right to do, but expected by God to be done.

Those that refuse to tithe or acknowledge that tithe is legitimate are only showing their own spiritual immaturity. Since the majority of the board is spiritually mature, there should not be many to object to the tithe.

:thumbs:

 

[JerryL]

What in the world are you talking about, what is a Levirate? or its law?

You cannot find where Paul is teaching it because you have no desire to find it so that you can justify your position.


Here is a snip of what I have taught my people. Ultimately, the tithe is required just as keeping the law is required. The only difference now is that we keep it not as a whippin' stick but out of a heart of love. When we love God as He commanded and love the world as Christ commanded, then all this stuff is what we do because it is not only right to do, but expected by God to be done.

Those that refuse to tithe or acknowledge that tithe is legitimate are only showing their own spiritual immaturity. Since the majority of the board is spiritually mature, there should not be many to object to the tithe.

:thumbs:

If you're so up on stuff that pre-dates carrying over into the law you should be up on the Levirate law, where a brother dies and the living brother marries the widow and raises up the firstborn as the deceased's kid. Simply showing you that just because it pre-dates law doesn't mean it carries over. How do you get the blood from thoses sacrifices out of your carpet at Church? It is the same concept if you think all things that predate law to be carried over to today. Spiritual maturity also means teaching the truth of the gospel, of which you are not if you are using those four Scriptures as tithe Scriptures., none of which has anything to do with tithing. If you can live with word twisting to teach your congregation go right ahead, I don't have to answer for it.

 

[jshurley04]

Tithe Truth

If you're so up on stuff that pre-dates carrying over into the law you should be up on the Levirate law, where a brother dies and the living brother marries the widow and raises up the firstborn as the deceased's kid. Simply showing you that just because it pre-dates law doesn't mean it carries over. How do you get the blood from thoses sacrifices out of your carpet at Church? It is the same concept if you think all things that predate law to be carried over to today. Spiritual maturity also means teaching the truth of the gospel, of which you are not if you are using those four Scriptures as tithe Scriptures., none of which has anything to do with tithing. If you can live with word twisting to teach your congregation go right ahead, I don't have to answer for it.

1. Levirate law does not show up in scripture until Deuteronomy 25:5-10 and is post-dated of the tithe.

2. Just because Christ fulfilled the law does not mean that we are free from the law. We are to keep the essence of the law, Christ Himself commanded that. We are still under the law of God, except, Christ has completed what we could never complete, only now we have more of it to understand.

3. The blessings of the tithe first and then the offering and gifts of sacrifice are reserved for those mature enough to follow the teachings of scripture. Also, they are proven facts of the power of the tithe and God's purposeful honoring of that tithe. The teaching of tithe is universal in scripture so get over it, practice it and benifit from it. The tithe is only the beginning, our true expected gift that God looks for is far larger than just the tithe.

If you cannot handle this truth, please keep your false teaching to yourself.

 

[Alcott]

The blessings of the tithe first and then the offering and gifts of sacrifice are reserved for those mature enough to follow the teachings of scripture. Also, they are proven facts of the power of the tithe and God's purposeful honoring of that tithe.

Do a statisticial test of hypothesis if you find enough farmers who tithe and see if they get a bumper crop the next year, then tithe that and get another bumper crop the next, and the next... Or, if you want to claim this 'blessing' concept can be applied to the individual who will be blessed financially if he/she tithes (a frequent teaching from the pulpit), then I have already disproved it. I found a method whereby it seemed to be working that way; but when I continued that pattern and gave more, the confidence interval indicating this fell out and the correlation coefficient began to indicate a negative correlation. It does not work.

If you cannot handle this truth, please keep your false teaching to yourself.

Shove that up your nose. If you can prove what you claimed, then do it.

 

[jshurley04]

Not worth the effort

Do a statisticial test of hypothesis if you find enough farmers who tithe and see if they get a bumper crop the next year, then tithe that and get another bumper crop the next, and the next... Or, if you want to claim this 'blessing' concept can be applied to the individual who will be blessed financially if he/she tithes (a frequent teaching from the pulpit), then I have already disproved it. I found a method whereby it seemed to be working that way; but when I continued that pattern and gave more, the confidence interval indicating this fell out and the correlation coefficient began to indicate a negative correlation. It does not work.



Shove that up your nose. If you can prove what you claimed, then do it.

You fella's and women that reject the teaching of Christ are not worth the effort to prove anything. You would not believe it if I provided it in spades. Besides, it is not a physical manifestation of the blessing that makes a blessing real. If you will not believe Moses and the prophets and neither believe the Word of God or myself, you will not believe anything. There is a place of preparation for those who do not believe.

 

[JerryL]

Gen. 38:5-8 Prelaw. Teach what you want Brother, only you have to stand. I'm still waiting for you to show me where Paul explained that we are still under the tithe law, teach me Brother.
BTW, Notice I capitalized Brother when I refer to you, unlike where you call into account my salvation and my "place of preparation".

Gal 5:1 It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.
Gal 5:2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
Gal 5:3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
Gal 5:4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

 

[Alcott]

Besides, it is not a physical manifestation of the blessing that makes a blessing real.

The demanded tithe of "food in my house" and the conditional promise of a blessing of the "fruits of the land" were not real? or were they not 'physical manifestations'?

There is a place of preparation for those who do not believe.

Don't be a coward to say what you mean. Your meaning is that I am not saved, ain't it?

 

[jshurley04]

Spitting into the wind

You fella's and women that reject the teaching of Christ are not worth the effort to prove anything. You would not believe it if I provided it in spades. Besides, it is not a physical manifestation of the blessing that makes a blessing real. If you will not believe Moses and the prophets and neither believe the Word of God or myself, you will not believe anything. There is a place of preparation for those who do not believe.

As I stated above, ya'll would not believe the truth if Christ Himself presented it. Oh, wait, He did, you have proven my point. Your unbelief is a sign of bad fruit and when I see bad fruit I have to question whether or not the tree is a true tree. You are willingly ignoring the teachings of scripture, show me where the scripture says that the law is to be ignored and show me where the law ends and scriptural trueth begins. You are proposing untruth, thus the proof is yours to prove. You are going to ignore truth and believe your own doctrine, so why should I fight with you.

Gen. 38:5-8, not a law nor a command to anyone but one man. This would not become a custom that proper until Deut. 25. The tithe was an established principle of worship dating back to the beginning of Genesis and the murder of Abel by Cain. While the Levirate "Law", which it was not a law, was a one time command to a son of Israel that became a custom which is no longer practiced. The principle of the tithe lives also in the N.T. scriptures and words of Christ.

 

[JerryL]

As I stated above, ya'll would not believe the truth if Christ Himself presented it. Oh, wait, He did, you have proven my point. Your unbelief is a sign of bad fruit and when I see bad fruit I have to question whether or not the tree is a true tree. You are willingly ignoring the teachings of scripture, show me where the scripture says that the law is to be ignored and show me where the law ends and scriptural trueth begins. You are proposing untruth, thus the proof is yours to prove. You are going to ignore truth and believe your own doctrine, so why should I fight with you.

Gen. 38:5-8, not a law nor a command to anyone but one man. This would not become a custom that proper until Deut. 25. The tithe was an established principle of worship dating back to the beginning of Genesis and the murder of Abel by Cain. While the Levirate "Law", which it was not a law, was a one time command to a son of Israel that became a custom which is no longer practiced. The principle of the tithe lives also in the N.T. scriptures and words of Christ.

Ok, teach what you like, as I stated before only you have to stand. You better study the tithe for what it really was if you are led to handle the Word of God. Nuff said..

 

[Alcott]

show me where the scripture says that the law is to be ignored and show me where the law ends and scriptural trueth begins.

Galatians 5:2-4 -- Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

 

[jshurley04]

Proper Hermenutics

Galatians 5:2-4 -- Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Proper understanding of Biblical interpretation understands this passage as dealing with the Law and our Salvation; NOT the Law as it relates to our practicle Christ-Follower living. The Law no longer applies to our need of salvation, but it does apply to our practicle living of our daily life and providing principles to live by. There is no scripture that tells us that we are to ignore the law as if it does not exist. If that were the case, God would have allowed the O.T. to disappear so that we would not be tempted by it. If it were not for O.T. Law then we would not have any basis on which to build a N.T. life of following after Christ.

You cannot exclude any part of the Law as pertaining to us now without tossing out the whole of scripture.

 

[Alcott]

You cannot exclude any part of the Law as pertaining to us now without tossing out the whole of scripture.

If you think that, then you're not reading the passage. Circumcision is absolutely part of the law-- a major, initializing part. But Paul still said if you insist on doing it as in the law, then you are obligated to the whole law, in which case Christ is 'of not benefit to you.'

So tell me--how can you not "exclude any part of the Law" when Paul specifically argues for not only the unnecessity, but the contraindication, of one of the law's most stringent commands?

 

[jshurley04]

Oops

If you think that, then you're not reading the passage. Circumcision is absolutely part of the law-- a major, initializing part. But Paul still said if you insist on doing it as in the law, then you are obligated to the whole law, in which case Christ is 'of not benefit to you.'

So tell me--how can you not "exclude any part of the Law" when Paul specifically argues for not only the unnecessity, but the contraindication, of one of the law's most stringent commands?

Well I'll be, I suppose that I misread the part of Romans where Paul teaches us to circumcise our hearts. I love the way folks like ya'll only read part of a post and ignore the remainder. I NEVER stated that it was for salvation, and you have INSINUATED that we don't have to obey any part of the law. The tithe is directly connected to worship since God Himself instituted worship, tithe, and offering.

 

[Alcott]

Offering? Yeah, as in burnt... do you offer hyper well-done carcasses?