To Obey God rather than tradition is legalism? Really??

[Steadfast Fred]

Funny that Bob would recommend a site where people assemble on Sundays and Wednesdays to worship.

I thought SDA's thought Sunday worship was mark of the beast?

 

[DHK]

And there are 1050 commands in the NT.

http://www.cai.org/bible-studies/1050-new-testament-commands

Says who? Says a cult! Consider your source.

What is the "liimit" after which we can throw the Word of God under the bus??

If that is what you want to do with your Bible go for it. It shows your attitude, your contempt for the Word of God.

Apparently for some it is 9 for others 10, for others 613...

I deal in facts. There are 613 OT laws in the OT, that many others have verified. They are laws given to the Jews, the keeping of the Sabbath being one of them.

In the NT you have 1050 - see the texts themselves.

That is what the cults say.

==================================
Originally Posted by DHK
And if you are gong to keep one you must keep them all.
If you fail in one you have failed in them all.
=====================================

Is this the part where you are going to tell us that Christians can ignore the first 3 commandments since they have not kept them (or the 1050 other NT commands) perfectly?

Have popcorn - am listening.

I never said anything about keeping the first three commands.
A cult said there are 1050 commands in the NT. Did you take the time to verify that information? I doubt it.

================================================
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHK
For whosoever shall keep the whole law and yet offend in one point he is guilty of breaking all. (James 2:10).
Telling a lie is just as bad as murder. Both break the law.
=====================================================

Indeed - and so if we tell Christians that it is ok to lie and murder since they cannot keep the law perfectly - Christ said in Matt 5 - we are doing wrong.

I think we all get that part.

Do you tell people that it is ok for them to lie and murder? Is that they type of person you are?

Recall in the text above it is not "do not kill" as a way to "earn your way to heaven".

In the OT if you broke the Sabbath, even if you were one of the elect, you were taken out and stoned. Remember the boy who gathered wood on the Sabbath day? It is about sin and its consequences.
Do you believe sin has its consequences?
Just as you believe that all Baptists and Protestants have the mark of the Beast? That would seem salvic to me!

You are spinning the point - I did not accuse you of breaking anything. I said that in your argument you are assuming we will gladly throw out the TEN Commandments since we are too exhausted by the 613 commands of the OT - while you ignore the fact that we also have 1050 commands of the NT.

You are using a statement made by a cult as gospel truth. You don't know if it is truth. You haven't verified it. Don't quote it again. Do the 1050 include the commands of Satan to Jesus?

Your argument is of the form "don't worry about that one or else you have to worry about 613" - I am simply pointing out that even in your own model - you are stuck with 1050 - not merely 613.

I never said that. A cult said there are 1050. You don't know if it is true.
I don't make up models. The truth is in the Word of God. Here is what the Bible says, and what you refuse to accept:

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
--Those aren't my words. That is Biblical teaching referring to OT law.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
--Again not my words. The Biblical teaching here is that you are cursed under the law because you cannot keep it.
You fail to answer my questions. Are you wearing all one kind of clothing as the law dictates? Answer please!

Paul is talking about salvation by works.

He is not talking about abolishing the Law of God.

"Do we then abolish the Law of God by our faith? God forbid in fact we ESTABLISH The Law of God" Rom 3:31

Romans 3:31 is not in the Book of Galaltians. Yes Paul is speaking of salvation by works. He plainly says that if you fail to keep all the law from birth to death then you are cursed under the law. The law cannot save. Look down to verse 13. The context shows that he is speaking of salvation.
--Part of the law is keeping the Sabbath Day. Along with keeping the sabbath you must keep the other 612 or you cannot be saved. If you break but one of these commands in your lifetime you cannot be saved. That is what he is talking about.

I too have said that the lost cannot "keep the 3rd commandment so well that they do not need salvation" the law is not a way to earn salvation. Even so - the 3th commandment is still binding on the saints - as even the "Baptist Confession of Faith" , (And I suspect even you) will admit.

There is no confession of faith that is binding on me. That is poppycock.
The Baptists are not denominational bound by any one Confession or creed. Learn that.

I am not a Baptist. The "Baptist Confession of Faith" is not an SDA document. Nor is C.H. Spurgeon an SDA nor do I agree with all he has ever said. Same goes for D.L. Moody and Andy Stanley.

I don't agree with all Baptists and all Baptists are not united by one document. You need to learn that. The Baptist Confession of Faith does not speak for all Baptists.

But they all get key points on this subject correct. So credit where credit is due.

Only in your opinion, and only as you wrongly interpret what they say. You won't even read the entirety of Moody's sermon to find out what he is really saying. You misrepresent him.

That is where your own opinion and the historic documents such as the Westminster Confession of Faith, the Baptist Confession of Faith etc differ.

That is where your opinion and the Bible differ.

That is where your opinion and D.L Moody and C.H. Spurgeon and R.C. Sproul differ.

You are free to have your own opinion - you have free will.

I happen to notice that they get that Bible doctrine right and that your view of it is not quite correct.

in Christ,

Bob

My wife used to be a Presbyterian. She was taught the Westminster Confession of Faith. Once I was saved I grew up being taught the Bible but no confession of faith. I have never studied any confession of faith. I believe in sola scriptura, not sola confessiona. I have never read any of the confessions of faith. Why should I. I study my Bible not the Confessions. I study the Bible not the ECF, or the preachers of the past. It doesn't matter what they believe. It matters what the Bible says.

Therefore your comparisons mean little to me.

 

[BobRyan]

My wife used to be a Presbyterian. She was taught the Westminster Confession of Faith. Once I was saved I grew up being taught the Bible but no confession of faith. I have never studied any confession of faith. I believe in sola scriptura, not sola confessiona. I have never read any of the confessions of faith. Why should I. I study my Bible not the Confessions. I study the Bible not the ECF, or the preachers of the past. It doesn't matter what they believe. It matters what the Bible says.

Therefore your comparisons mean little to me.

I do not argue that you must accept anyone's Confession of Faith - I only point out that "they exist".

I also point out that the Baptist Confession of Faith is not the "Seventh-day Adventist Confession of Faith" so it is not as though I just discovered an "Adventist document".

I also point out that a number of well known Baptists such as Spurgeon, D.L. Moody and Andy Stanley -- and those that follow along with them - so this is not me finding some "obscure Baptist opinion". And the point of that is to remind people that differ with these men - that this difference is an "in-house debate" if you draw the line on the very Bible doctrines that they affirm.

As you know - the way this is often positioned here is "Adventists believe that" when in fact we all know that on some of these points there is a long list of well-known Baptist sources, teachers, leaders that agree with the specific point named.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Your argument is of the form "don't worry about that one or else you have to worry about 613" - I am simply pointing out that even in your own model - you are stuck with 1050 - not merely 613.

Says who? Says a cult! Consider your source.

...
That is what the cults say.
...

You are using a statement made by a cult as gospel truth.

You don't know if it is truth. You haven't verified it. Don't quote it again. Do the 1050 include the commands of Satan to Jesus?

Until you actually read the list of Bible texts - which I have done.

http://www.cai.org/bible-studies/1050-new-testament-commands

Turns out - the Bible is not written by a cult.

BTW - there are no "commands from Satan" in the NT.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

1050 NT commands.

http://www.cai.org/bible-studies/1050-new-testament-commands

Funny that Bob would recommend a site where people assemble on Sundays and Wednesdays to worship.

I thought SDA's thought Sunday worship was mark of the beast?

The fact that I do not agree with the doctrines of that denomination does not mean I also "delete any Bible text" that they quote.

I think we can all understand that point.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

I do not argue that you must accept anyone's Confession of Faith - I only point out that "they exist".

I also point out that the Baptist Confession of Faith is not the "Seventh-day Adventist Confession of Faith" so it is not as though I just discovered an "Adventist document".

I also point out that a number of well known Baptists such as Spurgeon, D.L. Moody and Andy Stanley -- and those that follow along with them - so this is not me finding some "obscure Baptist opinion". And the point of that is to remind people that differ with these men - that this difference is an "in-house debate" if you draw the line on the very Bible doctrines that they affirm.

As you know - the way this is often positioned here is "Adventists believe that" when in fact we all know that on some of these points there is a long list of well-known Baptist sources, teachers, leaders that agree with the specific point named.

in Christ,

Bob

I would appreciate it if you simply stick to the Word.
In all fairness you do not even properly interpret what these men believe or what the Confessions say. You misrepresent them. Thus you have no right to use them as any authority when you claim they believe the Sabbath and they don't. It is just another distraction from the real argument being discussed.

 

[BobRyan]

I too have said that

1. the lost cannot "keep the 3rd commandment so well that they do not need salvation" the law is not a way to earn salvation.

Even so - the 3dr commandment is still binding ("do not take the name of God in vain" ) on the saints - as even the "Baptist Confession of Faith" , (And I suspect even you) will admit.

There is no confession of faith that is binding on me. That is poppycock.
The Baptists are not denominational bound by any one Confession or creed. Learn that.

I don't agree with all Baptists and all Baptists are not united by one document. .

1. Certainly you are free to be at war against the 3rd commandment if you so choose. I never suspected that of you - but if you insist.

2. I never argued that you are bound by the Baptist Confession of Faith in that statement above. No need to make it up.

3. I pointed to an incredibly obvious point that I at first thought you might agree to on the 3rd commandment - regarding taking God's name in vain. I had no idea you would react against that commandment so strongly.

You have free will - you can do as you wish.

In the mean time this continues to be a perfect example of the Baptist Confession of Faith - seen in this case to be taking a more center-of-the-road acceptance of this simple Bible doctrine, that most Christians would not reject.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

Your argument is of the form "don't worry about that one or else you have to worry about 613" - I am simply pointing out that even in your own model - you are stuck with 1050 - not merely 613.



Until you actually read the list of Bible texts - which I have done.

http://www.cai.org/bible-studies/1050-new-testament-commands

Turns out - the Bible is not written by a cult.

BTW - there are no "commands from Satan" in the NT.

in Christ,

Bob

The "1050" is a bogus number that hasn't been verified by anyone and comes from a site operated by a cult. Why would you endorse Mormons, J.W.'s, or even Hindus, and Buddhists? The site is not legitimate. Why use it?
Satan, in the "Temptation" commanded Jesus: "Fall down and worship me."
That is a command. Is it one of the 1050 mentioned? How would you know if you have not counted them all yourself? You are going by the information posted by an unreliable cult.

The Bible is interpreted by various people.
The RCC interprets it through a Catechism.
The SDA interpret it through EGW.
The J.W. interpret it through Charles Russell.
The Mormons interpret it through Joseph Smith.
That cult or link has its own interpretation also. It is cultish. It does not preach the truth.

 

[DHK]

I too have said that

1. the lost cannot "keep the 3rd commandment so well that they do not need salvation" the law is not a way to earn salvation.

Even so - the 3dr commandment is still binding ("do not take the name of God in vain" ) on the saints - as even the "Baptist Confession of Faith" , (And I suspect even you) will admit.



1. Certainly you are free to be at war against the 3rd commandment if you so choose. I never suspected that of you - but if you insist.

2. I never argued that you are bound by the Baptist Confession of Faith in that statement above. No need to make it up.

3. I pointed to an incredibly obvious point that I at first thought you might agree to on the 3rd commandment - regarding taking God's name in vain. I had no idea you would react against that commandment so strongly.

You have free will - you can do as you wish.

In the mean time this continues to be a perfect example of the Baptist Confession of Faith - seen in this case to be taking a more center-of-the-road acceptance of this simple Bible doctrine, that most Christians would not reject.

in Christ,

Bob

It doesn't matter what the Baptist Confession of faith says.
It doesn't matter what the third commandment says.
This discussion is on the sabbath day.
You are just on another rabbit trail.

 

[BobRyan]

I would appreciate it if you simply stick to the Word.
In all fairness you do not even properly interpret what these men believe or what the Confessions say. You misrepresent them.

In all fairness you have yet to show that that accusation is correct. I agree with them on some key points - not all - they are Baptist I am not. So you cannot make the wild claim that if I differ with them on one single point - I must differ with them on all points. That would be nonsense.

Same goes for the RCC. The fact that I differ with them on some points - does not mean I cannot agree with them on any point at all.

And I am happy to stick with the Word - when people are not bent on the idea of making the discussion an issue about "Adventists" as if we are the only people that see the particular issue with moral law - given in Eden to Adam and Eve - and including the TEN Commandments.

Even your own discussions with Biblicist on some of these points reveals the fact that the difference is not at all confined to "just Adventists" on every one of these points.

Rather some points are well known and accepted even within the Baptist denomination (but certainly not by all in the Baptist church.)

Thus you have no right to use them as any authority when you claim they believe the Sabbath and they don't. It is just another distraction from the real argument being discussed.

I am not a Baptist - I don't use Baptist documents "as an authority". They may be considered an authority for some Baptists - but not by Seventh-day Adventists.

I use the document to show instances were agreement exists on one or two specific points - not on all points. The existence of that agreement cannot be denied just because you find it "inconvenient".

I think the objective unbiased reader will discover that point easily.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

The "1050" is a bogus number that hasn't been verified by anyone

until you actually click on the link and review the list - as I did.

That is the difference between having the information and not having it.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

The "1050" is a bogus number that hasn't been verified by anyone and comes from a site operated by a cult. Why would you endorse Mormons, J.W.'s, or even Hindus, and Buddhists? The site is not legitimate. Why use it?
Satan, in the "Temptation" commanded Jesus: "Fall down and worship me."
That is a command. Is it one of the 1050 mentioned? How would you know if you have not counted them all yourself? .

click on the link - they show the texts referenced - this is not as hard as you are making it out to be - to "notice" that no such command from Satan is listed.

And apparently one of the links you are not clicking on is the Matt and Luke accounts of the temptation where in fact Satan never commands Jesus to do anything. Rather Satan says that HE will do this or that - IF Christ will bow down.

There is no command of the form "Fall down and worship" it is an "IF" - form of contract or agreement - asking Christ to agree to terms, conditions. Christ refuses the offer and instead commands Satan "GET thee behind me!".

That is in the form of an imperative - a command. And it is given by Christ to Satan -- it does not come from Satan. And it is not the 1050 list - as I am sure we all knew to start with.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

On rare occasions here I say that I have the free will do choose this or that -- but far MORE Than that I say that OTHERS here have the free will to do this or that.
Bob

You have free will. If you want to throw away your Bible; throw it into the trash as you suggest, then that is up to you. There is no one here going to stop you. It just shows your contempt for the Word of God.

I find it "instructive" that when I say I have free will - you bend-wrench-twist that in to "throw away your Bible; throw it into the trash as you suggest," --- how did you get to that odd idea from my statement above?

Surely that is not your view of Free Will.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus rose again on the first day of the week.
In Acts 20:7 the believers met with Paul on the first day of the week.
However, that seems to be irrelevant seeing that the early church met every day of the week, and that no day was above another and every day was esteemed alike.

Some of the Christians living a couple centuries ago referred to Sunday as "the Christian Sabbath," but that was a needless appellation. There is no command in the Bible to worship on any one certain day of the week. The worship on Sunday is simply by tradition, and for no other reason. There is no command to worship on the first day of the week.

[FONT=&quot]http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=87193&page=26

=========================================================
from[/FONT][FONT=&quot]: [/FONT]http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2011586&postcount=65 [FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

Originally Posted by DHK

My beliefs, therefore, are very much like Moody's.
You have been dishonest to use Moody as an example of one who has kept the Sabbath. He does not keep the Sabbath any more than I do. I vehemently oppose "Sabbath-keepers."

1. Moody vehemently opposes "Sabbath breakers" in his sermon - read it.

DWIGHT L. MOODY​

The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17 ​

.
The Fourth Commandment
Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.

​

THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly?You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales?Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was.I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.

"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)

It isjust as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins withthe word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stoneat Sinai.How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.

[FONT=&quot]=======================================

1. Moody claims the 4th commandment - Sabbath was given to MANKIND in Eden. So does the Baptist Confession of Faith - by contrast DHK thinks it was only given to Israel - starting at Sinai.

2. Moody claims that the Sabbath - of the 4th commandment REMAINS in effect from Eden until today and is just as needful today as it ever was. By contrast DHK condemns Sabbath keepers.

3. Moody claims that Sabbath breakers who insist that the 4th commandment Sabbath was done away with have no grounds to stand on. DHK claims that he vehemently opposes Sabbath KEEPERS.

==================================

in Christ,

Bob[/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by DHK
Jesus rose again on the first day of the week.
In Acts 20:7 the believers met with Paul on the first day of the week.
However, that seems to be irrelevant seeing that the early church met every day of the week, and that no day was above another and every day was esteemed alike.

Some of the Christians living a couple centuries ago referred to Sunday as "the Christian Sabbath," but that was a needless appellation. There is no command in the Bible to worship on any one certain day of the week. The worship on Sunday is simply by tradition, and for no other reason. There is no command to worship on the first day of the week.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost...1&postcount=75

The Biblicist;2006881


1. You will NEVER find the words "of the week" in any account of the creation Sabbath law anywhere in Scripture - NEVER!

2. SDA and other Saturdarians use logical inference to justify restricting the Sabbath law to the seventh day "of the week." There rationale goes something like this. Our week is based upon the first seven days of creation, therefore, since the seventh day in creation is the Sabbath it follows that the Sabbath is the seventh day "of the week." This is faulty logic as I will point out shortly.


8. It is now wrong to apply it to the seventh day "of the week" as it has been applied by God to the first day "of the week" first by type in the Messianic feasts of Lev. 23 and Lev. 25 and by Messianic prophecy (Psa. 118:20-24 with Acts 4:10-11; Mk. 16:9; heb. 4:2-11) and by Messianic example (Jn. 20; Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:1-2; Rev. 1:10) and by historic custom consistenly after the aposolic age right up to BEFORE Constantine.

9. The "first day of the week" is preceded by six working days, making the "first day of the week" the seventh day Sabbath in that PATTERN of seven.

10. The permanent application to the "first day of the week" is a BETTER Sabbath day observance because it commemorates the greater and finished work of redemption wiht the resurrection of Christ and a BETTER sinless creation of a new heaven and earth to come that begins in the EIGHTH and eternal age to come.

====================

By contrast -

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, ""Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: " THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
7 " BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'
8 ""Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.''
9 He was also saying to them, ""You are experts at setting aside the commandment of Godin order to keep your tradition.
10 ""For Moses said, " HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER';(Exodus 20:12) and, " HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER, IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH';
11 but you say, "If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),'
12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother;
13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.''

===========================

 

[DHK]

In all fairness you have yet to show that that accusation is correct. I agree with them on some key points - not all - they are Baptist I am not. So you cannot make the wild claim that if I differ with them on one single point - I must differ with them on all points. That would be nonsense.

You claim they believe in the Sabbath when they don't.
You misrepresent their beliefs.
You quote the introduction of Moody's sermon but fail to read the rest which explains what he believes about the Sabbath. That is deceitful. This discussion is not about Moody and his sermon and the interpretation thereof. So why draw him into this discussion? It is a waste of time.
Likewise the same thing can be said about the Confession and the others that you have said.

And I am happy to stick with the Word - when people are not bent on the idea of making the discussion an issue about "Adventists" as if we are the only people that see the particular issue with moral law - given in Eden to Adam and Eve - and including the TEN Commandments.

SDA's are monolithic. Your teachings must be based on EGW. You have her writings, "The Great Controversy," etc. for your interpretation. There is a wide diversity among Baptists. There are as many Baptists as there are denominations. That is the difference.

Even your own discussions with Biblicist on some of these points reveals the fact that the difference is not at all confined to "just Adventists" on every one of these points.

You can see the difference here. As I don't agree with Biblicist on all things, you can see why it is useless to use Moody, the Confession, et. al. We don't agree. But SDA's do agree. They must agree.

Rather some points are well known and accepted even within the Baptist denomination (but certainly not by all in the Baptist church.)

But you are not the authority. And you don't know what they are. You also don't have the authority to interpret those points by going to any old Confession. You are not in that position.

I am not a Baptist - I don't use Baptist documents "as an authority". They may be considered an authority for some Baptists - but not by Seventh-day Adventists.

I use the document to show instances were agreement exists on one or two specific points - not on all points. The existence of that agreement cannot be denied just because you find it "inconvenient".

It is not a matter of inconvenience. Are you calling me a liar?
I don't believe it because I don't believe it to be Biblical. Baptists believe in soul liberty. I have that right. You want to stick me to a rusty old document. You can't do that.

I think the objective unbiased reader will discover that point easily.

The document you refer to is Calvinistic; I am not. Why would I be in agreement with it?

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by BobRyan
In all fairness you have yet to show that that accusation is correct. I agree with them on some key points - not all - they are Baptist I am not. So you cannot make the wild claim that if I differ with them on one single point - I must differ with them on all points. That would be nonsense.

You claim they believe in the Sabbath when they don't.
You misrepresent their beliefs.

THEY claim they believe in the Sabbath -

Even you cannot deny that simple - obvious fact.

Thus it is you that is engaged in misrepresentation.

How were we supposed to miss that simple fact.

===============================

Exhibit 1: Moody makes HIS claim as he opposes Sabbath breakers.

DWIGHT L. MOODY​

The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17 ​

.
The Fourth Commandment
Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.

​

THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly?You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales?Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was.I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.

"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)

It isjust as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins withthe word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stoneat Sinai.How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away [FONT=&quot]with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]=======================================

1. Moody claims the 4th commandment - Sabbath was given to MANKIND in Eden. So does the Baptist Confession of Faith - by contrast DHK thinks it was only given to Israel - starting at Sinai.

2. Moody claims that the Sabbath - of the 4th commandment REMAINS in effect from Eden until today and is just as needful today as it ever was. By contrast DHK condemns Sabbath keepers.

3. Moody claims that Sabbath breakers who insist that the 4th commandment Sabbath was done away with have no grounds to stand on. DHK claims that he vehemently opposes Sabbath KEEPERS.



in Christ,

Bob[/FONT]

 

[DHK]

[FONT=&quot]
1. Moody claims the 4th commandment - Sabbath was given to MANKIND in Eden. So does the Baptist Confession of Faith - by contrast DHK thinks it was only given to Israel - starting at Sinai.

2. Moody claims that the Sabbath - of the 4th commandment REMAINS in effect from Eden until today and is just as needful today as it ever was. By contrast DHK condemns Sabbath keepers.

3. Moody claims that Sabbath breakers who insist that the 4th commandment Sabbath was done away with have no grounds to stand on. DHK claims that he vehemently opposes Sabbath KEEPERS.[/FONT]

You have only copy and pasted an introduction.
You don't know what Moody believes because you won't read the rest of the sermon. You are still ignorant as to what he believes on the sabbath. What a pity that you misrepresent him so.

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by DHK
You claim they believe in the Sabbath when they don't.
You misrepresent their beliefs.

Hint: 19.2 The same law that was first written in the human heart continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the fall.1 It was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in TEN commandments

THEY claim they believe in the Sabbath -

Even you cannot deny that simple - obvious fact.

Thus it is you that is engaged in misrepresentation.

How were we supposed to miss that simple fact.

===============================

Exhibit 2: the Baptist Confession of Faith - makes its own claims regarding the 4th commandment. And all TEN of the Commandments.



http://www.creeds.net/baptists/1689/kerkham/1689.htm#Ch19



THE LAW OF GOD


19.1 God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience written in his heart,1 and a specific precept not to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.2 By this he bound him and all his descendants to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience. God promised life on fulfilling it, and threatened death on breaching it, and he endued him with power and ability to keep it.3
(1) Gen 1:27; Ecc 7:29; Rom 2:12a,14-15
(2) Gen 2:16-17
(3) Gen 2:16-17; Rom 10:5; Gal 3:10,12

19.2 The same law that was first written in the human heart continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the fall.1 It was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in TEN commandments (written in two tables) the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six our duty to our fellow beings.3
(1) For the Fourth Commandment: Gen 2:3; Exo 16; Gen 7:4; 8:10,12. For the Fifth Commandment: Gen 37:10. For the Sixth Commandment: Gen 4:3-15. For the Seventh Commandment: Gen 12:17. For the Eighth Commandment: Gen 31:30; 44:8. For the Ninth Commandment: Gen 27:12. For the Tenth Commandment: Gen 6:2; 13:10-11
(2) Rom 2:12a,14-15
(3) Exo 32:15-16; 34:4,28; Deu 10:4

19.3 Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased to give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These were partly concerning worship, and in them Christ was prefigured—his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits.1 They also gave instructions about various moral duties.2 All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of the New Testament, when Jesus Christ abrogated them and took them away, for he was the true Messiah and only law-giver, and was empowered to do this by the Father.3
(1) Heb 10:1; Col 2:16-17
(2) 1Co 5:7; 2Co 6:17; Jude 1:23
(3) Col 2:14,16-17; Eph 2:14-16

19.4 To the people of Israel he also gave various judicial laws which lapsed when they ceased as a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation,1 but their principles of equity continue to be applicable in modern times.2
(1) Luk 21:20-24; Act 6:13-14; Heb 9:18-19 with 8:7,13; 9:10; 10:1
(2) 1Co 5:1; 9:8-10

19.5 Obedience to the moral law remains forever binding on all, both justified persons and others,1 both in regard to the content of the law, and also to the authority of God the Creator who gave the law.2 Nor does Christ in any way dissolve this law in the Gospel, on the contrary, he strengthens our obligation [to obey the moral law].3
(1) Mat 19:16-22; Rom 2:14-15; 3:19-20; 6:14; 7:6; 8:3; 1Ti 1:8-11; Rom 13:8-10; 1Co 7:19 with Gal 5:6; 6:15; Eph 4:25-6:4; Jas 2:11-12
(2) Jas 2:10-11
(3) Mat 5:17-19; Rom 3:31; 1Co 9:21; Jas 2:8

19.6 Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works to be justified or condemned by it,1 yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty, and directs and binds them to walk accordingly.2

======================

As we can all see from the above -

1. They claim that Gen 2:3 is the 4th commandment given to Adam prior to the fall.
2. They claim that ALL TEN of the TEN Commandments form the MORAL LAW of God.
3. AND they claim - 19.5 Obedience to the moral law remains forever binding on all, both justified persons and others,

 

[BobRyan]

You have only copy and pasted an introduction.
You don't know what Moody believes because you won't read the rest of the sermon. You are still ignorant as to what he believes on the sabbath. What a pity that you misrepresent him so.

Hint - count the number of times Moody mentions the Sabbath - to see what HE is claiming about HIS views of it.

You claim it is not honest to state that Moody claims to accept, defend promote and affirm the Sabbath of the 4th commandment.

Now let's read the text "And see" if that claim of yours holds up to the actual facts.

hint:
The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away [FONT=&quot]with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?[/FONT]

=====================================

DWIGHT L. MOODY

The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17 ​

.
The Fourth Commandment
Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.

​

THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly?You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales?Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was.I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.

"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)

It isjust as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins withthe word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stoneat Sinai.How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away [FONT=&quot]with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.[/FONT]