to the people wondering about gluttony

[corndogggy]

Answer this, In the parable of the talents one person was given 5 talents another was given 2 talents and another 1. Who was the glutton? The one with 5 and increased his to ten? Maybe the one who had 2 and increased his to 4? Or is it the one who hoarded his 1 talent to himself and did not get the increase?
You see that if you give you will have an increase. You hoard your gift you'll loose it. Gluttony is just that.

Not sure I agree with this. It wasn't that he was hoarding the talents and not sharing them, it was that he didn't invest them, he buried them. It's not like the other two guys was just sharing the wealth and magically happened to get more in return, they would have came back empty-handed if they had done that. No, they invested the amount they were responsible for... which has absolutely nothing to do with gluttony.

 

[Palatka51]

Gluttony is to food what being a drunkard is to alcohol. The two are often mentioned together for this reason. Being a drunkard is drinking more then the appropriate amount of alcohol.... it is drinking passed satisfaction and until "drunk" to use a common phrase. That is why Jesus was able to drink the "wine and other fermented drink" John abstained from, but still was not a drunkard. That is also why "drunk driving" is not driving after one beer, but typically it takes 3 or more beers in quick succession to be charged with that offense. Being drunk is drinking until your liver cannot process the amount of alcohol you are putting into it. The excess goes to your brain and stays there, and you start to stumble and not be in control of your body any longer. (Science has shown the liver can processes 2-3 drinks per hour up to a certain point, by the way... though that differs with weight and sex, it could be as little as 1).

Just as in the previous thread you are trying to equate eating is to drinking as gluttony is to drunkenness.

Eating does not cause someone else to stumble. Drinking an 8oz glass of wine will cause someone else to stumble.

Gluttony, is a far deeper wickedness than simple over eating.

Defending your use of 2-3 drinks per hour will cause many to commit the wickedness of drunkenness.

Try as you might you can not justify the use of alcohol as a beverage.

Try as you might you can not equate gluttony solely to over eating and heavy set people.

 

[Palatka51]

Not sure I agree with this. It wasn't that he was hoarding the talents and not sharing them, it was that he didn't invest them, he buried them. It's not like the other two guys was just sharing the wealth and magically happened to get more in return, they would have came back empty-handed if they had done that. No, they invested the amount they were responsible for... which has absolutely nothing to do with gluttony.

Yes, and I could agree with you. However, my analogy, good or bad, is what it is in the context of this thread.

 

[Joe]

Just as in the previous thread you are trying to equate eating is to drinking as gluttony is to drunkenness.

Eating does not cause someone else to stumble. Drinking an 8oz glass of wine will cause someone else to stumble.

Gluttony, is a far deeper wickedness than simple over eating.

Defending your use of 2-3 drinks per hour will cause many to commit the wickedness of drunkenness.

Try as you might you can not justify the use of alcohol as a beverage.

Try as you might you can not equate gluttony solely to over eating and heavy set people.

Amen :godisgood:

 

[EdSutton]

I'm confused!

Outta' curiosity, why is discussing alcohol OK in this thread, but not discussing drugs??


Ed

 

[Palatka51]

Outta' curiosity, why is discussing alcohol OK in this thread, but not discussing drugs??


Ed

No! Don't you even dare bring in that subject! I am already thinking of starving myself. I don't even want to consider having to give up my drugs too. :laugh:

 

[jsn9333]

No, I didn't say all gluttons are obese. So I didn't say all thieves are in jail. I said if someone is in jail for theft, he is probably a thief. And I said if someone is obese, he is probable given to overeating.

Also, I'm not saying overeating is the *only* cause of obesity in an an obese person. But in the overwhelmingly large majority of cases it is one of the causes (along with lack of exercise, primarily).

I don't need to know someone who is in jail for theft to know he probably stole something. And I don't need to know an obese person to know an obese person to know he probably over-ate habitually at some point in his life.

What we need is straight talk on this issue just like other sins the Church is not afraid to preach about. That is why Mike Huckabee wrote his book, "Quit Digging Your Grave with a Knife and Fork," after being diagnosed with an obesity related disease and losing 100 lbs of excess fat. People need to realize that a)they are sinning and b) it is very bad for them and for the Church.

love,
Jsn

That line of logic doesn't make any sense, jsn. That's like saying ALL thieves are in jail. Well, guess what, only a percentage of thieves are in jail, those that have been TRIED and FOUND GUILTY. You are pre judging people based on your own opinion.
What I'm trying to say is that, it's more complicated than just extra calories=extra pounds. Don't you think doctors know that already, and tell their overweight patients this every day? Don't you think us every day people know it, too, by now? I'm willing to gamble and say that, most of the time, there is some other factor leading up to the weight gain, and there is more to it than just spouting off about gluttony. You really need to get to know your brothers and sisters well before you make such a harsh statement about their sins.

love,

Sopranette

 

[jsn9333]

The dictionary defines gluttony as excessive eating, and voracious eating. That's all I'm saying. You can say I'm categorically wrong all you want, but your issue is with the English language... not me! Greed certainly has something to do with it, but "greed" is a different word with a different definition.

The talents parable had nothing to do with gluttony. Gluttony has to do with food. The purpose of definitions, dictionaries and *words* is so that we can discuss things and communicate, knowing what the other person is trying to convey. That is why we have definitions for words.

No, you are absolutely categorically wrong. Gluttony is to deny those that have a need for a certain item, be it food or whatever, that you want to hoard unto yourself.

Answer this, In the parable of the talents one person was given 5 talents another was given 2 talents and another 1. Who was the glutton? The one with 5 and increased his to ten? Maybe the one who had 2 and increased his to 4? Or is it the one who hoarded his 1 talent to himself and did not get the increase?
You see that if you give you will have an increase. You hoard your gift you'll loose it. Gluttony is just that.

 

[Sopranette]

No, I didn't say all gluttons are obese. So I didn't say all thieves are in jail. I said if someone is in jail for theft, he is probably a thief. And I said if someone is obese, he is probable given to overeating.

Also, I'm not saying overeating is the *only* cause of obesity in an an obese person. But in the overwhelmingly large majority of cases it is one of the causes (along with lack of exercise, primarily).

I don't need to know someone who is in jail for theft to know he probably stole something. And I don't need to know an obese person to know an obese person to know he probably over-ate habitually at some point in his life.

What we need is straight talk on this issue just like other sins the Church is not afraid to preach about. That is why Mike Huckabee wrote his book, "Quit Digging Your Grave with a Knife and Fork," after being diagnosed with an obesity related disease and losing 100 lbs of excess fat. People need to realize that a)they are sinning and b) it is very bad for them and for the Church.

love,
Jsn

Okay, well, I tried. Only the Holy Spirit can make you look upon your fellow sinners with a deeper sense of humility and compassion. I cannot.

love,

Sopranette

 

[jsn9333]

Show me in the Bible where you find the truth that "eating doesn't cause anyone to stumble, but drinking does."

Rather, I see 1 Cor. 8, "Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble."

What you don't realize is that you are relying entirely on Tradition when you say drinking a glass of wine causes someone to stumble, but eating a steak doesn't. Neither necessarily causes anyone to stumble. It depends on the person and the circumstances, that is why Paul "if" the act causes my brother to stumble.

Do you really think Paul never ate meat again (per the verse above) and is calling us all to be vegetarians? Or do you think he was just making a point very strongly that we should look out not to tempt our brothers to sin? If I know my brother is having me over for dinner and used to be an alcoholic, I won't bring a 6 pack of beer to enjoy. If I know he is a former glutton, I'm not going to bring chips and fatty dip to enjoy in his presence.

Christ said that what John didn't drink, He did. Jesus drank the drinks John abstained from, wine and other fermented drinks. He also ate the foods that John abstained from. Are you saying He causes people to stumble? I don't need to "try" to justify drinking moderately. Christ did it for me. I will believe Him over you any day. And He stands for freedom, the freedom the Pharisees hated and that which you hate as well. The Pharisees relied on Tradition and attempted to enforce legalism with no Biblical basis.

Christ saved his harshest words not for prostitutes, drunks, or other sinners (though drunkenness and prostitution are sins). He befriended those people, and drank and ate with them (though he never drank or ate too much). In love he confronted their sins and led them to the Truth. That is what the Bible says! Christ's harshest words were for the Pharisees who ignored the Scriptures and relied on Tradition so as to bind people legalistically and restrict the freedom they had in Christ. He called them children of the devil. The church leaders, not the "sinners", faced the wrath of Christ. Be careful!

Just as in the previous thread you are trying to equate eating is to drinking as gluttony is to drunkenness.

Eating does not cause someone else to stumble. Drinking an 8oz glass of wine will cause someone else to stumble.

Gluttony, is a far deeper wickedness than simple over eating.

Defending your use of 2-3 drinks per hour will cause many to commit the wickedness of drunkenness.

Try as you might you can not justify the use of alcohol as a beverage.

Try as you might you can not equate gluttony solely to over eating and heavy set people.

 

[Palatka51]

Rather, I see 1 Cor. 8, "Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble."

You'd do well to study your Bible better.

Meat given to Idols, or even meats that are unclean to Jews as in pork. The use of wine causes many to stumble and we would do well to follow Paul's example. If it will cause another to fall then by all means stop what you are doing. If your liberty causes another to sin then you have sinned against Christ.

1 Corinthians 8:4-12
4As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
5For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
7Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
8But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
9But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
10For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol’s temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
11And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
12But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.

 

[jsn9333]

I'm not the one that said drinking causes people to stumble and eating doesn't, when in fact the Scripture talking about causing a brother to stumble has to do with food (and not only wine). That was you.

"if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again"

Other verses mention wine along with food, but the point is that no food or drink necessarily causes every brother to stumble. Whether or not you should eat a food or drink a particular drink depends on the circumstances you are in and what brother you are with. That is why Paul said "if" the food causes my brother to stumble. Potato chips can cause someone to stumble if that person is a glutton. The key word is "if". There is no reason to think my enjoying a beer and a couple of french fries will cause my brother to stumble if he is not a glutton and not an alcoholic. And you have as much reason to tell me to not drink a glass of wine because there is such thing as alcoholism as I have to tell you not to eat a french fry because there is such a thing as obesity.

As I said, Christ said that what John didn't drink, He did. Jesus drank the drinks John abstained from, wine and other fermented drinks. He also ate the foods that John abstained from. Are you saying He causes people to stumble? I don't need to "try" to justify drinking moderately. Christ did it for me. I will believe Him over you any day. And He stands for freedom, the freedom the Pharisees hated and that which you hate as well. The Pharisees relied on Tradition and attempted to enforce legalism with no Biblical basis.

You'd do well to study your Bible better.

 

[Palatka51]

Other verses mention wine along with food, but the point is that no food or drink necessarily causes every brother to stumble. Whether or not you should eat a food or drink a particular drink depends on the circumstances you are in and what brother you are with. That is why Paul said "if" the food causes my brother to stumble. Potato chips can cause someone to stumble if that person is a glutton. The key word is "if". There is no reason to think my enjoying a beer and a couple of french fries will cause my brother to stumble if he is not a glutton and not an alcoholic.

Reason it away all you wish. God's Word is where I stand. I am comfortable with all my statements.


BTW, Why do I hear a, "It depends on what the definition of "is" is", echoing about the room?

 

[jsn9333]

We all know what "is" means. I think you're confused about what "if" means.

"if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again"

There are multiple ways to stumble. For Jewish Christians, they may have felt eating unclean food was sinful. For gluttons, eating fatty foods might be sinful if they eat to much. Milkshakes could be sinful for them, since often they can add enormously to caloric intake. Wine could be sinful to an alcoholic. Etc.

BTW, Why do I hear a, "It depends on what the definition of "is" is", echoing about the room?

 

[Palatka51]

Milkshakes could be sinful for them, since often they can add enormously to caloric intake.

There, now you've gone and done it! :BangHead: You just had to say it didn't you. Don't even try to deny it. I've just got to have one now and it is all your fault!

What ever am I going to do with myself?

 

[corndogggy]

Eating does not cause someone else to stumble. Drinking an 8oz glass of wine will cause someone else to stumble.

If somebody is destroying their bodies and lives by gross overeating, and I know they're trying to kick this habit, and I go and invite them to an all-you-can-eat buffet and gorge myself in front of them... do you really think my actions could not possibly cause them to stumble? People can be addicted to food just like drugs or alcohol and kicking this habit can be very tough.

When I started this thread, my point was to try to not judge these people and get hung up on their actions. I'm not saying their actions are completely ok and not sinful at all. I personally believe gluttony in terms of food consumption is very real and very serious, and there's no need to try to redefine what exactly gluttony is. It's just that pointing it out and going on a crusade against it in the same way that you would do with drugs or whatever will do nothing but lose you several friends. It still ain't right though.

 

[jsn9333]

Sorry, but I just have to chime in hear and say something about your phraseology. Alcohol *is* a drug... and a deadly, very addictive one at that (if it is severely abused). A lot of people forget it is a drug very similar to other drugs, and a particularly dangerous one at that. I guess that is because it happens to be legal (or at least it has been since the laws that made it illegal were changed in the 1930's) and so people somehow think it is "different" then other drugs.

So, that being said, I assume you mean to ask why *illegal* drugs aren't allowed to be discussed.

As far as this thread, alcohol abuse is often seen in the same verses that mention food abuse (gluttony, the topic of this thread) so that particular drug is more "on topic" for this thread. But as far as the rule about no discussion focusing on illegal drugs for the board in general... you're guess is as good as mine. But that is the rule (in my experience). The only reason I've ever been given is that it is because they are illegal. (or at least most of them are... in most states).

I guess if we were in the 1930's we couldn't discuss alcohol either... then again, we couldn't discuss anything b/c we wouldn't have any computers. :laugh:

Outta' curiosity, why is discussing alcohol OK in this thread, but not discussing drugs??


Ed

 

[jsn9333]

Mike Huckabee certainly didn't think "anti-gluttony" crusades were any less called for then "anti-drug abuse" or "anti-alcohol abuse" crusades. That is why he wrote his book, "Quit Digging Your Grave with a Knife and Fork," after being diagnosed with an obesity related disease and losing 100 lbs of excess fat.

If it ain't right, then speak out about it. Speak in love, but speak the truth nonetheless. The fact that a lot of people do it and it is culturally acceptable is even more reason to speak up... because chances are those suffering from the addiction to over-eating are not evil people, they just don't realize that it is actually a very bad thing. If it truly "ain't right", then if people get offended then that is their fault for being "not right" with with God.

A true friend would thank you instead of giving up your friendship.
Proverbs 27:6 "Faithful are the wounds of a friend. . . "

. . . gluttony . . . going on a crusade against it in the same way that you would do with drugs or whatever will do nothing but lose you several friends. It still ain't right though.

 

[Palatka51]

If somebody is destroying their bodies and lives by gross overeating, and I know they're trying to kick this habit, and I go and invite them to an all-you-can-eat buffet and gorge myself in front of them... do you really think my actions could not possibly cause them to stumble? People can be addicted to food just like drugs or alcohol and kicking this habit can be very tough.

When I started this thread, my point was to try to not judge these people and get hung up on their actions. I'm not saying their actions are completely ok and not sinful at all. I personally believe gluttony in terms of food consumption is very real and very serious, and there's no need to try to redefine what exactly gluttony is. It's just that pointing it out and going on a crusade against it in the same way that you would do with drugs or whatever will do nothing but lose you several friends. It still ain't right though.

There is nothing here that I can disagree with. However eating will not cause one person to sin, drinking will. I whole heartily agree with the addicted to food points. You must be very strong to be able to give it up. It's the withdrawal symptoms that'll kill you. Once you are over them you truly are "Home Free". Never need to worry about that food thing again.

I'm sorry people, all of you have got the Biblical sense of gluttony wrong. Now if you would change your argument of gluttony to slothfulness then I agree with every thing that y'all have stated.

 

[corndogggy]

There is nothing here that I can disagree with. However eating will not cause one person to sin, drinking will. I whole heartily agree with the addicted to food points. You must be very strong to be able to give it up. It's the withdrawal symptoms that'll kill you. Once you are over them you truly are "Home Free". Never need to worry about that food thing again.

Isn't being addicted to anything a sin in itself?

Even if you're not addicted, you're saying that you can absolutely gorge yourself to the point of grossly damaging your body and it's not sinful? I don't agree with that at all. I think you can sin with food just fine.