tongue speakers please answer

Mat.7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

The foolish man built his house upon the sand and met up with disaster.
The wise man built his house upon the rock and it stood firm.

Look at the context that this parable is given. In the Judgement Day many will appear before Christ and have nothing to offer Christ but their experiences. They will address Christ: "Lord, Lord," and tell Him about their experiences. They have built their house on the sand. They have met with disaster.

1Cor.3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
The wise man will build his house on a solid foundation--the Lord Jesus Christ. No matter what storm may come, Christ will carry Him through. He will endure. And Heaven is already his. Jesus has already promised, "I go to prepare a mansion for you."

The Charismatic's theology has a foundation built on experience. It arises out of their experience. Our theology arises out of the Word of God. The Word of God is our foundation. It is our sole authority in matters of faith and practice. Experience and emotionalism can lead you to disaster; it can lead you into false doctrine; it can lead you anywhere. Thus Paul gave Timothy the strict warning Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee. (1Tim.4:16).
DHK

 

>>> Mark 15:16-20

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He that beieveth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned. and these signs shall Follow them that believe. In my Name shall they cast out devils, they shall speak with new tongues, they shall take up serpents and if they drink andy deadly thing it shall not hurt them, they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. So then after the Lord had spoken unto them he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth and preached every where, THE LORD WORKING WITH THEM AND CONFIRMING THE WORD WITH SIGNS FOLLOWING. AMEN

Jesus said that its an adultress gereration that follow after signs. And that is correct. We dont seek after the signs but as jesus said in Mark 16. Those signs will follow after them which believe. <<<

So you're saying that not only do you speak in tongues, but you've also cast out devils, taken up serpents, drank poison without being hurt, and healed people?

 

>>> A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an arguement.

For those who have never experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit, the arguement will always be that we are decieved, for those of us who have experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirt, we will never be desuaded. <<<

so what is your experience, Multimom?

i once experienced a door that opened and closed all by itself. it started slightly cracked, and opened nearly all the way, and then closed nearly all the way. so obviously, my experience tells me that ghosts exist.

is this a valid conclusion? or should i listen to the arguments that tell me that ghosts-spirits of the dead-don't roam the earth?

[ June 06, 2002, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: 1Peter4:11 ]

 

did you ever hear about buiding up a straw man and then beating him down. We who have experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit have overwhelming biblical evedence to back up our experience. However you have no biblical evidence of a door opening and closing to prove a ghost.

 

I have seen no Biblical evidence of either one.
DHK

 

well I guess you think the bible is lieing when it talks about the baptism of the holy spirit.

What Does the Bible Say About...the Baptism in the Holy Spirit?

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire" (Matthew 3:11).

"And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God" (John 1:32-34).

The baptism in the Holy Ghost is a crisis experience just as our initial conversion experience was. We cannot be gradually baptized in the Holy Spirit, just as we cannot be gradually baptized in water. Certainly we can be gradually filled with God's Spirit, but one day that "filling" will spill over into a baptism or complete immersion in the Holy Ghost. Many believe they need not ask for this experience because they think they receive the Holy Spirit at conversion. While this is true in the sense that the Holy Spirit comes upon us, and in us, to plant the seed of life in Christ, it is not true that we are completely filled with His Spirit unless we ask for it. "...How much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:13).

Many people have been "born again" and have the Holy Spirit working in their lives, but have never received the baptism in the Holy Ghost which equips them for service and gives them the power needed to overcome in Christ. "For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence...But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth" (Acts 1:5 and 8). If you, as a Christian, have not known the power of God in being able to overcome sin, to witness and to know God in His fullness, then you need to ask God for the baptism in the Holy Ghost. There were also Christians in Paul's day who did not know about the power that was available to them. We find this recorded in Acts 19:2-6:

"He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied."

This Scripture clearly shows us there is more than one kind of baptism. These Christians had received water baptism, but not the Holy Ghost baptism until Paul laid his hands on them and prayed. We also see that the gifts of the Holy Spirit accompany this baptism, as they spoke in tongues and prophesied.

Another account of this taking place is found in Acts 8:14-20: "Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money."

HOLY SPIRIT IS A GIFT

Still again we find an account of the gift of the Holy Spirit being given in Acts 11:14-17:

"Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. For as much then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?"

God's gift of the Holy Ghost is promised to us today and not just for the saints back then as we find Peter saying, "...Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call" (Acts 2:38-39). The Holy Ghost is God's gift to us. As we are baptized in His Spirit we will find that we will experience the gift of speaking in tongues, plus all the other gifts of the Spirit when needed, if we continue to follow Him (I Corinthians 12, 13 and 14). These are God's gifts of power to enable us to accomplish the task to which we have been commissioned. Although the gift has been abused by many, we should not take lightly the Lord's words to us in John 7:37b-39,

"...Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"

Acts 2:2-4 says, "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

If the disciples of the Lord needed to be filled with the Holy Ghost then, how much more do we need to be filled in our day? We should not allow what other men think or say about the Baptism in the Holy Ghost to prevent us from seeking this wonderful blessing. We should seek the Lord with an humble heart for the truth of what is written in the Bible and ask Him to baptize us in the Holy Spirit. We can trust Him to show us the truth if we come to Him with an open heart and mind with a willingness to obey Him.

"Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him (Acts 5:28-32)."

 

>>> did you ever hear about buiding up a straw man and then beating him down. We who have experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit have overwhelming biblical evedence to back up our experience. However you have no biblical evidence of a door opening and closing to prove a ghost. <<<

Multimom's statement implied that experience is the only evidence needed. her words: a man with experience overcomes a man with an argument. to that end, i showed what could be considered a perfectly valid example of when a man with experience doesn't necessarily overcome a man with an argument. you helped prove it by stating that i had no biblical evidence to support my experience. thanks!

you see, DHK has done an exceptional job of showing biblical evidence that speaking in tongues today is a questionable practice. the only biblical evidence you've shown is that it happened in the days of the apostles, and usually after an apostle layed hands on the individual.

which reminds me: no one has answered why Phillip wasn't good enough. even though people got saved and baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, it still took the apostles coming down to lay hands on them for them to receive the Holy Spirit. still waiting for an answer on that one.

 

"well I guess you think the bible is lieing when it talks about the baptism of the holy spirit. What Does the Bible Say About...the Baptism in the Holy Spirit? "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire" (Matthew 3:11)."
---This verse speaks specifically of the day of Pentecost. The Holy Spirit came and they were baptized by Him and cloven tongues of fire appeared. That was a one time event in history. From that time onward all who would believe in Christ would be baptized into Christ. The baptism takes place at salvation. Fire also speaks of purification. The Holy Spirit begins a purification process in the one who is saved. But the only baptism of the Spirit known today takes place at the time of salvation. It started with a fulfillment of prophecy at the Day of Pentecost. Jesus promised that He would send a Comforter, and He did--it was the Holy Spirit that would dwell within every believer. There is no "Second Blessing." That is a heresy.
"And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God" (John 1:32- 34).
---This is John the Baptist's testimony of Jesus being baptized. It was the beginning of Jesus ministry. Unless you too have a claim to deity you cannot claim this as evidence for baptism of the Holy Spirit. When John saw this, look at the conclusion he reached: "He bare record that this is the Son of God." Are you?
The baptism in the Holy Ghost is a crisis experience just as our initial conversion experience was. We cannot be gradually baptized in the Holy Spirit, just as we cannot be gradually baptized in water. Certainly we can be gradually filled with God's Spirit, but one day that "filling" will spill over into a baptism or complete immersion in the Holy Ghost. Many believe they need not ask for this experience because they think they receive the Holy Spirit at conversion. While this is true in the sense that the Holy Spirit comes upon us, and in us, to plant the seed of life in Christ, it is not true that we are completely filled with His Spirit unless we ask for it. "...How much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:13).
---Luke 11 is talking of principles of prayer, and nothing more. Don't pervert the Scriptures.
Remember Jesus is speaking to His disciples. None of his disciples understood about the Holy Spirit at that time: not the indwelling or the filling of the Spirit. They didn't even understand that Jesus would have to die and be raised again. How would they understand what would happen in the future on the Day of Pentecost? The promise of the Holy Spirit here is in reference to salvation after the Day of Pentecost.
---You cannot be gradually baptized in the Holy Spirit because the Bible doesn't teach it.
---"One day that "filling will spill over into a complete immersion in the Holy Ghost." The Bible doesn't teach that either. That is just your imagination, and it is your theology that evolves from your experience, which, until proven otherwise, could even be demonic. Do you speak in tongues? Do you understand what you are saying? How do you know it is from God? How can you be sure you are praising God and not the devil? You can't be sure, can you?

"Many people have been "born again" and have the Holy Spirit working in their lives, but have never received the baptism in the Holy Ghost which equips them for service and gives them the power needed to overcome in Christ."
---Let's stop right here. The Holy Spirit is given to equip us for service and give us the power to overcome in Christ. When I received Christ, I was given all that I ever needed. I am reminded that I need to seek daily to bd filled with His Spirit, by submitting to His will, and obedience to Him, but that is not the Second Blessing, as you would call it. It is not the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The filling of the Holy Spirit enables one to speak boldly when witnessing for Christ (Acts 4:29-31).

"For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence...But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth" (Acts 1:5 and 8).
---You love to take Scripture out of its immediate context don't you. Again Jesus was giving a command to His disciples to wait in Jerusalem until the Holy Spirit would come on the Day of Pentecost. The only way you can obey that command is to go back in history and be with them. Do you have a time machine? Notice the areas that are mentioned: Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria. This was a one time event. It happened on the Day of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit came and descended on the disciples. I have news for you. You were not there!

"If you, as a Christian, have not known the power of God in being able to overcome sin, to witness and to know God in His fullness, then you need to ask God for the baptism in the Holy Ghost."
---No you don't need to ask God for the baptism of the Holy Ghost, because He won't give it to you. But if you open your mind to some experience and expect something to happen to you, another spirit will take that opportunity and give you a false experience instead. What you do need to do is ask God for forgiveness (1John 1:9), submit to His will, ask for His strength to overcome (Phil.4:13; 1John 5:4), and live a life that is victorious for Him. Victorious Christian living is not based on emotions and experiences; it is based on death to self.

Gal.2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

1Cor.15:31... "I die daily."

"There were also Christians in Paul's day who did not know about the power that was available to them. We find this recorded in Acts 19:2-6:" "He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied."
---These were Old Testament Saints. They had not even heard of the Holy Spirit. After they trusted Christ as Saviour, they received the Holy Ghost and spoke with tongues. Tongues were a sign to the unbelieving Jew, concerning the authenticity of the gospel message. (1Cor.14:21,22). This was no Second Blessing. This happened at the time that they were saved. They knew nothing but John's baptism up to this time.
This Scripture clearly shows us there is more than one kind of baptism. These Christians had received water baptism, but not the Holy Ghost baptism until Paul laid his hands on them and prayed. We also see that the gifts of the Holy Spirit accompany this baptism, as they spoke in tongues and prophesied.
---Again, as explained above, they had received John's baptism, a baptism unto repentance. They had not received any Christian baptism. They were not even saved. The accompanying gifts were for
the benefit of the Jews.

"Another account of this taking place is found in Acts 8:14-20: "Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.""
--Realize the Book of Acts is a Book of transition. There are things recorded in the history of the Apostles that will never happen again. This was the first account of the gospel going out to the Gentiles. It specifically says, "For as yet he was fallen upon none of them." At this time the Gentiles began to receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as well. This also is not a Second Blessing. It has directly to do with the salvation of these people. To say that it has anything to do with an experience after salvation is to take it out of its context. Philip went there as an evangelist, preaching the Word in that area for the first time.
DHK

 

The second half of Revolt's post:

HOLY SPIRIT IS A GIFT "Still again we find an account of the gift of the Holy Spirit being given in Acts 11:14-17: "Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. For as much then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?""
---Still again, I find the words "the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning." This is a key phrase. It indicates that these people also received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit at the time of salvation. This all began with the Day of Pentecost, "as on us at the beginning." From that point onward in history God by the power of His Holy Spirit would indwell the hearts of all those that would believe in His name. There is no Second Blessing here.

"God's gift of the Holy Ghost is promised to us today and not just for the saints back then as we find Peter saying, "...Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call" (Acts 2:38- 39)."
---And they did repent, and they did get saved, and they did receive the Holy Spirit, and they were indwelt by Him. That was the promise.

"The Holy Ghost is God's gift to us."
---Yes it is, at the time of salvation, when He comes and takes up residence within each believer.

"As we are baptized in His Spirit we will find that we will experience the gift of speaking in tongues, plus all the other gifts of the Spirit when needed, if we continue to follow Him (I Corinthians 12, 13 and 14)."
---Wrong. These gifts have ceased (1Cor.13:8-13). They were a sign to the unbelieving Jew, and also given to the church for a temporary period of time because the revelation of God was not yet complete. Once the Bible was complete "made perfect" then those gifts were "done away," "ceased," "vanished." They ceased to be by the end of the first century when the Book of Revelation was written (ca. 96 a.d.).
1Cor. 12-14 speaks of the abuse of the gifts of the Spirit. It does not promote them.

These are God's gifts of power to enable us to accomplish the task to which we have been commissioned. Although the gift has been abused by many, we should not take lightly the Lord's words to us in John 7:37b-39, "...Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"
---Again speaking of salvation, and more directly--a specific reference to the Day of Pentecost. He says that if you believe on Him you will receive the Holy Spirit. That is very plain. Every believer does. Why make it say something different?

Acts 2:2-4 says, "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." "If the disciples of the Lord needed to be filled with the Holy Ghost then, how much more do we need to be filled in our day? We should not allow what other men think or say about the Baptism in the Holy Ghost to prevent us from seeking this wonderful blessing. We should seek the Lord with an humble heart for the truth of what is written in the Bible and ask Him to baptize us in the Holy Spirit. We can trust Him to show us the truth if we come to Him with an open heart and mind with a willingness to obey Him."
---Again, the Day of Pentecost was a one-time event in history, never again to be repeated. Have you ever seen a cloven tongue of fire above your head?
"How much more do we need to be filled in our day." We do need to filled with the Holy Spirit." There is no denying that. Eph.5:18 commands us to be filled with the Holy Spirit. It is an every day thing. It is not an ecstatic experience. It is submission to the Holy Spirit in obedience to His Word.
"From seeking this wonderful blessing." Give me one reference in the Bible where we are commanded to seek for such a blessing, as speaking in tongues or a baptism of the Holy Spirit (that is unrelated to salvation).

"Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him (Acts 5:28-32)."
---And your point is? The disciples were witnesses to those things that they saw, and the Holy Spirit bore witness with them. Nothing unusual there. Look up Rom.8:16.
DHK

 

No where in the greek text will you find a greek word for gibberish.

The english slang word does not come from the Bible but from the "traditions of Men' that make the word of God of no effect in this area because of the stubborness of the hearts that do not want to recieve what God has for them!!!!

Paul did not call speaking in tongues Gibberish!!!

I happen to have a word for the cessationist theory It is "HOGWASH"!!!!
And if anyone claims that this is only my opinion I will reply , so is argument for the word "gibberish".

 

atestring, what does "a sounding brass" or "a tinkling cymbal" sound like?

why do a pipe or harp need to give distinct sounds?

what does "a trumpet giving an uncertain sound" mean?

and what do each of those mean in the context in which they are presented? 1 Cor 13:1, 1 Cor 14:7,8

 

How do you know its not a real laguage I have heard of several accounts of missionaries speaking in tounges and they were speaking in the language of the people in the country they were in. I admit I cant really prove this but then again you cant prove its not a known language.

1 Corinthians 13
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

how can paul speak with the tongues of angels

 

Dare I? Should I?

Tell you what: As long as I keep my attitude on a much more positive note than what it was.

So here I am, having a moment when I'm tired of looking at my "To Do Wall," and on impulse I look up the Baptist Board, and return to one of my favorite (???) topics, and what do I see?

Someone referencing the "tongue of angels."

Even better, they actually ask a correct question!

Please, Revolt; don't stop with your one question!

How can Paul speak with the tongues of angels?

Did Paul understand all mysteries and have all knowledge?

Did Paul have all faith, and was able to move mountains?

Did Paul bestow all his goods to the poor?

Did Paul give his body to be burned?

If the answer to any of these is "yes," then I'd like to see your scriptural (or otherwise) evidence for it. If the answer is "I'm not sure" or "no," then the answer to "how can paul speak with the tongues of angels" is: "He didn't."

You see, Paul was trying to make a point: It doesn't matter what we do, or how we do it, or if we do it upside-down or inside-out or with tongues or in silence: LOVE is the overriding principle.

By taking this one reference to the "tongue of angels" and actually construing it to mean there was a tongue of angels, you've missed the point of the passage, and taken the verse out of context.

Now, human nature dictates that the first impulse from you, Revolt, is to simply think to yourself, "this guy doesn't know beans about what he's talking about." Don't get your dander up, Revolt; consider very, very carefully what I just told you. Then, before you respond, please do me and yourself a favor: Look up any and all verses that reference the words "tongue," "tongues," "language," "languages," "angel," and "angels." What you're looking for is ANY other reference in the Bible to the "tongue of angels."

What you'll find is that there isn't any other reference. What you'll find is that throughout the entire Bible, when an angel is speaking to or with a human, they understand each other clearly. What you'll find is that when tongues are used, the only clear description of the gift is in Acts 2, and it plainly states that the listeners heard the words in their own language--even though they were quite sure that the speaker didn't know their native language.

You will find, if you scour hard enough, a reference in 1 Corinthians 14, that says "if someone speaks in an unknown tongue, they speak not unto men, but unto God." This does not substantiate a "tongue of angels," but merely an example of speaking German in a room full of non-German speaking people: you understand you, God understands you, but no one else does.

Don't take my word for it. But please, before you hit the "Reply" button at the bottom of this page, look this up for yourself. If you can find any other reference than 1 Corinthians 13:1 to a "tongue of angels," I'll be more than happy to examine it.

 

Since at the time that this statement was made, Jesus had already been crucified, buried, resurrected and ascended we can only conclude that "when that which is perfect has come" to be the 2nd coming of Christ which then leads to the conclusion that the gifts of the Spirit will not cease until the time of His return.

Now as for my statement: A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an arguement.

First let me say that I do not believe that it is of any benefit to anyone to take scripture and use it to divide the body of Christ as the discourse regarding the gift of tongues often does.

Many in the Baptist denomination still contend that every single experience of tongues is demonic and that is certainly divisive. However as you have seen one of my brothers (a tongue talker) has more than adequately stated the case regarding tongues. Also, with regard to Acts. Every concordance known to mankind states that the true miracle was not the fact that tongues were spoken and rest assured that if you go to the original greek NO where and I mean NO WHERE will you find that it refers to "unlearned languages". The miracle occured not with the "utterance of tongues" but where the hearers all heard in their own languages. It does not say nor does it elude to the disciples speaking languages they had not learned. It says "and every man HEARD in his own language." It does not say that the disciples spoke in every dilect present.

 

(got quiet around here)

And no, I'm not back; I'm lurking somewhat. I'm just curious to see the conversation at this point.

As it stands, about the only thread I'll post in right now is the Website one.

 

WOW! For once I agree with DHK! Way to go on that last post DHK!

 

Hey, guys!

I've got a man in my church(SBC) whos parents are both deaf. They speak to each other in Sign Language. They are totally deaf. They cannot speak except through their hands. What about these guys! They will never ever ever have an opportunity to get in on the so called "Experience" will they?!

Tongues are not necessary in my church because everybody here understands English!