Tongues Cease of Themselves and Greek Middle?

[music4Him]

Well if you don't believe in speaking in tongues.........then don't be speaking nothing but your native language that you was born with!


1Cor 12:4 - 6~
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

Selah
Music4Him

 

[DHK]

The gift of tongues has ceased, that is the Biblical gift of speaking in a language previously unknown to the speaker but known to the listeners. They are actual known national languages.
Yes I do speak in my mother tongue, my national language, and when I go to the mission field I speak in their national language which it took me some effort to learn. It was not given supernaturally to me for the gift of tongues has ceased.
That which goes on in the name of tongues today is not Biblical at all. It is a cheap imitation of the real thing. For most it is a psychological high, an emotional experience creating an emnotional void that needs to be continually re-filled.
DHK

 

[Ray Berrian]

This statement below is spiritual error. This statement below cannot be proven in N.T. Scripture. This is a presupposition made long ago by a person who does not let Scripture speak to the learner.

Knowledge both spiritual and secular is still here. Prophecy will take place in the Great Tribulation which is future to our time [Revelation 11:3,6]. So now we were to believe that only 'the gifts of tongues' ended in 70 A.D.

.

'That which goes on in the name of tongues today is not Biblical at all.'

 

[DHK]

Lest you be confused:
The Apostolic Age--The First Century.
The Church Age--From Pentecost to the Rapture.
The Tribulation--Seven Years of God's Wrath following the Rapture.
The Millenial Kingdom--1000 years of the Reign of Christ following the Tribulation.

With these terms in mind, you may be better able to grasp the meaning of Scripture.

The gifts of the Holy Spirit ceased. They ceased in the first century. They were for the Apostolic Age only. They were the signs of an Apostle for the most part as is indicated by 2Cor.12:12 and Heb.2:3,4. When the Apostles died the gifts ceased. When the Bible was completed the gifts ceased. When the first century Jews passed off the scene, the gifts ceased. In each case, the gifts (tongues in particular), were a sign.

ICor.13:8 speaks of "prophecy, tongues, and knowledge," all of which have ceased, and did cease in the first century. Let us not be so naive as to thing that knowledge refers to common knowledge. It doesn't. It refers to revelatory knowledge, that special revealed knowledge revealed to prophets (and a few others) before the Bible was completed. Revelatory knowledge is not common knowledge. And the gift of receiving revelatory knowledge has ceased.
The gift of prophecy has also ceased. It has ceased for this church age. It is this church age which the Bible is written for. The Bible is not written for us who will be in heaven, for the unsaved in the Tribulation, and for those in the MIllennial Kingdom. It is for us, right here and now, in this Age, before the rapture occurs. Thus to refer to prophecies either in the Kingdom or in the Tribulation is just to take one a needless rabbit trail. We are speaking of the Church Age, not the Tribulation, not the Millennial Kingdom, not Heaven, but the Church Age. Prophecy has ceased. All the Spiritual gifts have ceased.
My statement still stands:
That which goes on in the name of tongues today is not Biblical at all.
Until you can demonstrate that it is Biblical why should any one believe you. Can you speak supernaturally in Hindi, Cree, Maori, Punjabi, Russian, or what oher languages has the Lord given you miraculously? Tongues is not mystical gibberish. Biblical tongues are supernatually given, but real national languages. Please demonstrate your ability to speak in such.
DHK

 

[music4Him]

Originally posted by DHK:
The gift of tongues has ceased, that is the Biblical gift of speaking in a language previously unknown to the speaker but known to the listeners. They are actual known national languages.
Yes I do speak in my mother tongue, my national language, and when I go to the mission field I speak in their national language which it took me some effort to learn. It was not given supernaturally to me for the gift of tongues has ceased.
That which goes on in the name of tongues today is not Biblical at all. It is a cheap imitation of the real thing. For most it is a psychological high, an emotional experience creating an emnotional void that needs to be continually re-filled.
DHK

Thats your opinion/mantra.
But there are different ways that tongues are used in church. If you don't see that learning a new language (ie German, Spanish, French, Hebrew....ect) as a gift from God, then so be it. I know where all good gifts come from.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by music4Him:
Thats your opinion/mantra.
But there are different ways that tongues are used in church. If you don't see that learning a new language (ie German, Spanish, French, Hebrew....ect) as a gift from God, then so be it. I know where all good gifts come from.

My challenge goes out to you just as it has to Ray. There are different ways...?? Demonstrate it? Give Scriptural evidence. Show me the Greek where glossa means anything else but either the organ (tongue) or an actual national language. Demonstrate your gibberish view of Scripture.
DHK

 

[music4Him]

Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by music4Him:
Thats your opinion/mantra.
But there are different ways that tongues are used in church. If you don't see that learning a new language (ie German, Spanish, French, Hebrew....ect) as a gift from God, then so be it. I know where all good gifts come from.

My challenge goes out to you just as it has to Ray. There are different ways...?? Demonstrate it? Give Scriptural evidence. Show me the Greek where glossa means anything else but either the organ (tongue) or an actual national language. Demonstrate your gibberish view of Scripture.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]I just gave you scripture, its gone over your head.

1Cor 12:4-6~
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

BTW, no need for attacks (I'm refering to the last sentence of your post).

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by music4Him:
I just gave you scripture, its gone over your head.

1Cor 12:4-6~
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

BTW, no need for attacks (I'm refering to the last sentence of your post).

The Scripture didn't go over my head at all. I purposely ignored it. The gifts of the Spirit have ceased. Yes, there were diversities of gifts for the first century church. Those gifts have ceased. There is no need to harp on verses that are taken out of context and don't apply to us today.
There was no personal attack intended. So I will repeat it again:
Demonstrate from Scripture the Charismatic gibberish tongue speaking, and how it can be the Scriptural mode of speaking in "tongues?"
DHK

 

[music4Him]

quote by DHK
-----------------------------------------------------
The Scripture didn't go over my head at all. I purposely ignored it.
-----------------------------------------------------

Well then DHK, why are you even trying to debate this? I'm just going to ignore you then!


There still are diversities of gifts for the church today. They have not ceased because I see them being used at church and in the mission field. I haven't yet seen anyone produce solid scriptures saying that the gifts ceased.

 

[Timtoolman]

Originally posted by music4Him:
quote by DHK
-----------------------------------------------------
The Scripture didn't go over my head at all. I purposely ignored it.
-----------------------------------------------------

Well then DHK, why are you even trying to debate this? I'm just going to ignore you then!


There still are diversities of gifts for the church today. They have not ceased because I see them being used at church and in the mission field. I haven't yet seen anyone produce solid scriptures saying that the gifts ceased.

YOU have not answered his question. Where is your biblical stance for a jibberish language? Your verses had nothing to do with the question!

 

[Timtoolman]

Originally posted by DHK:
The gift of tongues has ceased, that is the Biblical gift of speaking in a language previously unknown to the speaker but known to the listeners. They are actual known national languages.
Yes I do speak in my mother tongue, my national language, and when I go to the mission field I speak in their national language which it took me some effort to learn. It was not given supernaturally to me for the gift of tongues has ceased.
That which goes on in the name of tongues today is not Biblical at all. It is a cheap imitation of the real thing. For most it is a psychological high, an emotional experience creating an emnotional void that needs to be continually re-filled.
DHK

In a nutshell DHK. That is exactly right on!

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by music4Him:

There still are diversities of gifts for the church today. They have not ceased because I see them being used at church and in the mission field. I haven't yet seen anyone produce solid scriptures saying that the gifts ceased.

diversities of gifts:
1, tongues: Why do Charismatic missionaries--all of them--have to learn the language in order to go to the foreign mission field? Because the gift of tongues has ceased.

2. healing:
Acts 5:16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.
--Where are the faith healers that have the gift of healing as the apostles had in Biblical times. All the sick from ALL the cities all around Jerusalem. You live in Texas. Can any of your "healers" go into all the hospitals in Dallas, and heal ALL the sick in ALL the hospitals in Dallas and in all the cities lying round about Dallas. That is the equivalent of what happened in Acts 5:16. Does the gift of healing exist today? No. Does God heal today? Yes.

Miracles: Is the gift of miracles in operation today? If it is will you demonstrate it for us? How about walking on water, raising the dead? for starters?

Acts 5:12-15 And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch. And of the rest durst no man join himself to them: but the people magnified them. And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.) Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.

Care to imitate some of the miracles that Peter did. I know many of the frauds among the Charismatic movement do. I can watch Peter Popov almost everynight sell his "miracle water" from Russia that will heal you "for a price." He tries to imitate Peter too. So do many other Charismatic frauds.
DHK

 

[music4Him]

Originally posted by Timtoolman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by music4Him:
quote by DHK
-----------------------------------------------------
The Scripture didn't go over my head at all. I purposely ignored it.
-----------------------------------------------------

Well then DHK, why are you even trying to debate this? I'm just going to ignore you then!


There still are diversities of gifts for the church today. They have not ceased because I see them being used at church and in the mission field. I haven't yet seen anyone produce solid scriptures saying that the gifts ceased.

YOU have not answered his question. Where is your biblical stance for a jibberish language? Your verses had nothing to do with the question! </font>[/QUOTE]If he is going to ignore what I post then I'm gonna ignore him. But if you are wondering... to me any language that is not your native tongue that you speak is a gift. You can decide who gave you the knowledge to speak it. BTW, most of the scriptures have been posted to back up the biblical stance of SPEAKING IN TONGUES (not jibberish). Look the scriptures up on this board theres alot of them. If theres not enough here then go back to the main board to these theads and read the on about speaking in tongues volumes 1, 2, 3, and 4. Then if you have a bible generator (like crosswalk.com or e-sword) that will pull up all scripture of tongues, Spirit, Holy Ghost..ect. Type those words in the search box and see what pops up.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by music4Him:
If he is going to ignore what I post then I'm gonna ignore him. But if you are wondering... to me any language that is not your native tongue that you speak is a gift. You can decide who gave you the knowledge to speak it. BTW, most of the scriptures have been posted to back up the biblical stance of SPEAKING IN TONGUES (not jibberish). Look the scriptures up on this board theres alot of them. If theres not enough here then go back to the main board to these theads and read the on about speaking in tongues volumes 1, 2, 3, and 4. Then if you have a bible generator (like crosswalk.com or e-sword) that will pull up all scripture of tongues, Spirit, Holy Ghost..ect. Type those words in the search box and see what pops up.

When you speak in tongues (languages) which languages do you speak in? Glossa never means gibberish. It never refers to any kind ecstatic speech. It always refers to a genuine national language that can be recognized by others. Others would recognize your language. So what language do you speak in?
DHK

 

[Timtoolman]

YOu should try to answer his questions first then post your question. I did not see a question from you post just a post that did not address what DHK asked.
I have read the post on tongues. I agree it is a national langauge, not a jibberish or some heavenly langauge. There is no scripture to support that. However that is not what is going on in the tongues church today. There is much confusion, deciet, emotionalism,jibberish talk, and very little spititual growth. It is all about men. Not about worshipping God.

 

[music4Him]

DHK....

1Cor 12:4-6~
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. (ie 1 Cor.12:8 .....word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Not everyone is healed the same way. Jesus didn't heal everyone the same way. Doctors in the medical field don't heal each patient the same way. There are differnces. Different languages and different ways to learn them and interpret them. Some may have a strong gift of decerning of spirits...while others only can decern spirits occasionally. Theres no set of rules of how God will work, but it does say in verse 6 that it is the same God which worketh all in all.

 

[DHK]

There are diversities of GIFTS
You are not getting it are you?
Please go back and read some of my previous posts.
The gifts of the Spirit have ceased. They are no longer in operation. That doesn't mean that God isn't in operation. The gifts of the Spirit, every one of them, were supernatural in nature, and cannot be duplicated, as is evidenced with the gift of languages, the gift of healing, and the gift of miracles. I challenge you to show me a single person in this world who has the ability to demonstrate Biblically that they have any one of these gifts. It is quite evident that no one does. We learn languages before we go to the mission field. Paul didn't. He had the gift of languages. "I speak in languages more than ye all." God heals through prayer today, but not always--according to his will (1John 5:14). Peter healed ALL that came to him (Acts 5:16) No one can do that today. Miracles and signs were the signs of an apostle that don't take place today (1Cor.12:12; Heb.2:3,4)
Now, I give you plenty of Scripture for my position. But your position relies on your experience alone. Your "theology" arises out of your experience. It is true because you experienced. You base your belief on your emotions and not on the Word of God. You have things backwards. Our foundation is not experience; it is the Word of God. Until you have that right one cannot grow as a Christian ought to grow.
DHK

 

[music4Him]

~the same God which worketh all in all~

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by music4Him:
~the same God which worketh all in all~

Sure He is the same God.
He immutable--unchangeable, eternal, immortal, invisible, holy, just, love, merciful, and works in the hearts of mankind from the time of creation until now, and will do so for all eternity. But he doesn't work the same way in every period of history. In the Old Testament He spoke to the nation of Israel through his prophets by dreams, visions, in an audible voice, theophanies, etc. But in this day and age he speaks to us through His son, Jesus Christ, as revealed through His Word. Christ is the same yesterday today and forever; but the way that he reveals himself to mankind is not the same.
He was on this earth for 33 short years during which period he performed many mighty works to demonstrate his deity to this sinful world.
During that time he gave his apostles the power to perform miracles also that they (through the first century) might demonstrate to the world that their message of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ was the true message of God. After the Bible was complete, these signs were no longer needed. God now speaks to us through His Word, not through signs and wonders.

An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, but there shall no sign be given them but the sign of Jonas; for as Jonas was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."
--The only sign this world needs is the gospel message.
DHK

 

[hillclimber]

Originally posted by DHK:

--The only sign this world needs is the gospel message.
DHK

Absolutely, and all the rest is diversionary, and not of God.