Tongues Cease of Themselves and Greek Middle?

[music4Him]

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An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, but there shall no sign be given them but the sign of Jonas; for as Jonas was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."
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DHK you are talking of signs.....

I'm talking of gifts of the Spirit.

Act 11:15-17 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

 

[music4Him]

Originally posted by hillclimber:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DHK:

--The only sign this world needs is the gospel message.
DHK

Absolutely, and all the rest is diversionary, and not of God. </font>[/QUOTE]1Co 12:12-27
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For the body is not one member, but many.
15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

 

[tamborine lady]

1st Cor 13-8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

In this scripture it does not say when they will cease. No matter how many times you say they have already ceased, it does not make it so.

You have yet to show any scripture, since I came to this board where the tongues have already ceased.

To be presuptious and say they already have is not helping. The greek does not show that they have ceased. It says they will. But it does not say when!!

All the gifts are still in effect today!!

Peace,

Tam

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by music4Him:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by hillclimber:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DHK:

--The only sign this world needs is the gospel message.
DHK

Absolutely, and all the rest is diversionary, and not of God. </font>[/QUOTE]1Co 12:12-27
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For the body is not one member, but many.
15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

</font>[/QUOTE]

There are diversities of GIFTS
You are not getting it are you?
Please go back and read some of my previous posts.
The gifts of the Spirit have ceased.

The real question that has been asked time and time again, and has been avoided by Charismatics here is:

Demonstrate from Scripture that the modern day Charismatic style gibberish tongue-speaking is Scriptural. Where do you find your Scriptural support? Where is it in the Bible?
DHK

 

[music4Him]

Wow DHK! Tam must have been ahead of you because she posted where it is in the bible before you posted.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by music4Him:
Wow DHK! Tam must have been ahead of you because she posted where it is in the bible before you posted.

Still haven't found it. There is nowhere in the Bible where the Greek word Glossa means anythig else but a national language, or occasionally refers to the actual organ "tongue," as it does in James. It never refers to the modern day ecstatic speech. So tell me where you get this Biblical evidence from.
DHK

 

[hillclimber]

The sooner you folks accept the fact that those sign gifts are long gone, the sooner you can establish a growing relationship with the Lord, who desires that relationship so greatly.

Everything in your circle of life cries out to you to stay the course, and don't listen to the truth, and if you sincerely ask HIM the truth, HE is obligated to show you. HE has been doing so through DHK.... Listen up, search it out.

By your circle of life I mean those folks you associate with, your church friends, relatives,etc. They encourage you to embrace or desire some of these sign gifts, unfortunately.

 

[tamborine lady]

I guess it's a stalemate, because neither one can make the other side "see".

But here we go again:

1 st Cor 13-1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

Do you know for sure what language angels speak?
Don't you think that they speak all the languages of the world?

Don't you think also that they might have one of their own, that only they and God understand!

Rev 2-17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

God does have things that men don't understand. One of them is what people speak when they are talking to God.

It is more of a miracle to have GOD give them a message, and they speak it out, and then GOD tells someone else what was said, and they say what God told them in the common speach of that group.

There is nowhere in the bible that says when tongues will cease. But it daes say that they exist.

1 Cor 12-verses 8 thru 11 are listed the gifts of the Spirit. It is God who gives them to different people as He will. Evidently He only gives the understanding of them to them that has one!!

Peace,

Tam

 

[tamborine lady]

Originally posted by hillclimber:
The sooner you folks accept the fact that those sign gifts are here to stay, the sooner you can establish a growing relationship with the Lord, who desires that relationship so greatly.

Everything in your circle of life cries out to you to stay the course, and don't listen to the truth, and if you sincerely ask HIM the truth, HE is obligated to show you. HE has been doing so through some of us.... Listen up, search it out.

By your circle of life I mean those folks you associate with, your church friends, relatives,etc. They encourage you to shun or make fun of some of these sign gifts, unfortunately.

Tam says;

Right back atcha slick. (Bolding is mine)

Peace, Tam

 

[Timtoolman]

Originally posted by tamborine lady:

1st Cor 13-8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

In this scripture it does not say when they will cease. No matter how many times you say they have already ceased, it does not make it so.

You have yet to show any scripture, since I came to this board where the tongues have already ceased.

To be presuptious and say they already have is not helping. The greek does not show that they have ceased. It says they will. But it does not say when!!

All the gifts are still in effect today!!

Peace,

Tam

DHK has shown you scripture after scripture. And not only that no one can seem to prove that God has given all these people the gift to speak in another national language. The frauds have all been expose. There is no church today practicing the biblical gift of tongues, not one!

 

[hillclimber]

Originally posted by tamborine lady:

Originally posted by hillclimber:
The sooner you folks accept the fact that those sign gifts are here to stay, the sooner you can establish a growing relationship with the Lord, who desires that relationship so greatly.

Everything in your circle of life cries out to you to stay the course, and don't listen to the truth, and if you sincerely ask HIM the truth, HE is obligated to show you. HE has been doing so through some of us.... Listen up, search it out.

By your circle of life I mean those folks you associate with, your church friends, relatives,etc. They encourage you to shun or make fun of some of these sign gifts, unfortunately.

Tam says;

Right back atcha slick. (Bolding is mine)

Peace, Tam

I wish you peace also Tam but why do you call me slick?

 

[tamborine lady]

It's just a southern expression. Like if I said right back atcha buddy.

Peace,

Tam

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by tamborine lady:

The greek does not show that they have ceased.

What the Greek shows is that the Greek word translated either tongues or languages is "glossa" and it never, never means gibberish. There is no such word in the Greek language that means gibberish. The Bible does not teach of speaking in ecstatic speech anywhere. Prove that Charismatic gibberish speaking of tongues is found in the Bible. Demonstrate it from Scripture. I have been waiting for this proof now for ages.
DHK

[Edited to attribute the quoted material to the proper person.]

[ February 07, 2006, 05:28 AM: Message edited by: Bible-boy ]

 

[EdSutton]

My guess is you will be waiting some more!
Ed

 

[tamborine lady]

Dhk said:The Bible does not teach of speaking in ecstatic speech anywhere. Prove that Charismatic gibberish speaking of tongues is found in the Bible.

Tam says: The Bible doesn't say anything about gibberish!!!

Why you keep using that is a mystery to me.

I do not speak gibberish. Neither does anyone else I know.

No need to answer this post, because it will just be some more senseless drivel that doesn't make sense.

No offence, but I think we've reached a fork in the road.

"how can 2 walk together unless they are agreed?"

Tam

 

[Charles Meadows]

What the Greek shows is that the Greek word translated either tongues or languages is "glossa" and it never, never means gibberish.

I believe Aristotle and Galen have both used "glossa" (or glotta as the Attic would have it) to mean unclear or ecstatic speech.

 

[Link]

Just no time to respond.

Look at the examples of prophecy in the New Testament. Agabus warned of future events like a famine and Paul being arrested.

These are the actual examples of the content of the prophecies they would have had in the NT church, that and someone prophetically exposing the secrets of an unlearned or unbelieving attenders heart until he declared God was among/in the saints of a truth.


So much for your theory that there is no prediction in NT prophecy.

 

[DHK]

The gift of prophecy as mentioned in 1Cor.13:8, would cease. The fact that there was a gift is evident by the problems in Corinth and the examples that you cite. But the gift did cease. It ceased by the end of the first century, as did tongues and revelaatory knowledge and the rest of the spiritual gifts. They were needed for the first century alone, the apostolic age.
When the apostles died the gifts died with them.
When the Bible was complete there was no more need for the gifts.

Hebrews 2:3-4 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
--They were the signs of an apostle.
DHK

 

[Ray Berrian]

DHK,

You said, 'But the gift did cease. It ceased by the end of the first century, as did tongues and revelaatory knowledge and the rest of the spiritual gifts.'

You are wrenching the Scipture again with your gibberish. The Word did not say "they did cease" or that they "did cease" as you twist above. What it does say is ' . . . they shall cease,' which is in the future tense. (future middle indicative).

No time framwork, in this love chapter, is give as to what time in the future these three things will cease. But since knowledge and prophecy have not as yet ceased, we assume also that 'tongues' is still in vogue.

Knowledge--Daniel 12:4--knowledge will multiply rather than slow down and cease until the time of the end. By injecting the word, 'revelatory' in front of knowledge you wilfully change the meaning of God's Word as the Lord warned us not to do in Revelation 22:18. Don't do as the cultists do by changing or adding different words to the N.T.

Prophecy will still be operative in the Great Tribulation as duly noted in Revelation 11:3 & 6.

Tongues, where the Elders will allow the Holy Spirit to still minister in Christian churches does make Himself evident with 'tongues' along with the 'interpretation of tongues.'

.

 

[Ray Berrian]

Also, notice in Daniel the prophet did not say 'revelatory knowledge' will cease at the conclusion of the first century, but what he did say is that knowledge will greatly multiply until the times of the end of history.

Let the Word stand by itself without adding your extra words to flavor your Elders views as to what they think His Word should say to His people. We are not permitted to add words to I Corinthians chapter thirteen or any other chapters in the Bible.