Originally posted by Singer:
Someone remarked that Paul could not have known that
anything like a bible would ever be written. So, I wonder how
he could have meant that. The Word of God as far as Paul was
concerned would have referred to Jesus. Paul knew Him to
be the manifestation of the "Word". Also, the tongues gift
was mentioned in the same verses as other gifts. (Discernment,
knowledge etc.) They surely wouldn't cease with tongues would
they? As for a self-edifying prayer language, I say once
again that ...that is what I received for a one-time event.
I do not consider myself as having the gift of tongues or the
gift of interpretation. I strictly received a blessing from God
(like the angels singing for the old man) and still am in amazement
24 years later as to what happened to me through prayer
and praise and bible reading. Study more on the term "pray in
the spirit" or "pray with the spirit". One verse to start with is :
Romans 8:26
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know
not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself
maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Do a little research there and get back to me.
Others please respond too.
Thanks
Singer [/b]
(2 Tim 4:13 KJV) The cloak that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments.
Paul knew that Scripture was being written, and he knew that the Apostles, including himself, were the instruments that God was using to write down the Scriptures. Yes there would be a Bible. This is precisely what he meant by 1Cor.13:8-13. “When that which is perfect (the Bible) is come, then that which is in part (prophecy and other spiritual gifts) will be done away.”
2Pet.3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
--Peter considered the words of the apostles of equal importance as the prophets of the Old Testament. “Be mindful of the words spoken of the prophets…and of us the apostles.” Then later in the same chapter he says:
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
--Peter knew that many of the writings of Paul were Scripture, and refers to them as such. He refers to Paul’s “epistles…as they do also the other scriptures.” If Peter knew that Paul’s epistles were Scripture, I am sure that Paul himself knew that the Lord was speaking to him, and the things that he was writing down were the very words of God.
1 Tim 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;
--This is an example of one of his epistles. He writes by the commandment of the Lord.
All of the Apostles were acutely aware the Scripture was in the process of being canonized at the time of the Apostles. The early churches accepted many of the books as Scriptures soon after they were written. So the Corinthian Church, for example, may have had access to the Gospel of Matthew and the Epistle of James, both of which were written quite early.
I believe that all the gifts listed in 1Cor.12, ceased. However, I also believe that they were uniquely given for that period of time, and were special supernatural gifts. Even gifts as “helps, discernment, administration,” etc. were special gifts. They were gifts supernaturally given for a special period of time, for a special purpose. Take teaching for example. I teach. Some say that I have a gift for teaching. I don’t believe I have the “gift” of teaching; I don’t believe it exists. If I have anything, it may be a natural talent or an ability that I have learned: one or the other. I have two sons that can play the piano. One of them has a natural ability, and learned with very few lessons. The other struggled, and learned to play the hard way through much practice. Just as no one has the “gift of healing” today, my son doesn’t have the “gift of piano playing” today. These spiritual gifts were not just talents. They were supernatural gifts given in the first century when the early church was growing, in its infancy, and when the Word of God was not complete. Tongues, Prophecy, and Revelatory knowledge all had to do with the revelation of God’s Word.
The “gift of knowledge” is not just common knowledge. It is revelatory knowledge, special knowledge given by God, at that time because the Bible was not yet complete. It was revelation, not just any knowledge.
Rom.8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
--The previous verses talk about our suffering and how with patience do wait for the redemption of our bodies. Heaven will be so wonderful. But until then we pray. Jesus promised to send us a Comforter, the Holy Spirit, who will assist us. Paul says he helps our infirmities. Sometimes we suffer to such a degree we don’t know what we should pray for, but the Holy Spirit helps us. He brings to mind the things we ought to pray for. He Himself intercedes for us. How? “With groanings which cannot be uttered.” In other words, it is the Holy Spirit’s groanings, and they cannot be uttered. How can you try to imitate or try to speak something that is impossible to utter? They CANNOT be uttered. It is impossible for those groanings (however you may define them) to be uttered, pronounced, said, voiced, or whatever. This would be the most ridiculous verse to use in defence for speaking in tongues because it says exactly the opposite. They cannot be uttered.
It is a promise of the Holy Spirit to help in prayer, and nothing more. Again, tongues was a gift given to first century Christians, given to the church, to be used for the public edification of the church, and never to be used as a private prayer language. It was also used in conjunction with unbelieving Jews to whom it was a sign (1Cor.14:21,22) It was a sign for them. If there were no unbelieving Jews present the whole issue of tongues is moot.
DHK