Tongues

[Singer]

3AM:

Ok...I see what you're saying.
It's alright to kill but not to murder.
I agree...but wouldn't it be odd to hear that preached in Sabbath
or Sunday school. Imagine the prayers that would go forth
in war.

And yes, I did say you give too much credit to the day of
worship; much the same as too much emphasis on the
emblems or in thinking that someone belongs to the one
true church.

Whosoever Will

Singer

 

[Singer]

So Who Do We Believe ?

(II Timothy 4:2,3)
" For the time will come when they will NOT
endure sound doctrine but after their own desire will gather
to themselves a great number of teachers to say what their
itching ears want to hear. And they shall turn away their ears
from the Truth, and shall turn to fables."


Sound Doctrine seems to be anyone's guess.

The forces of Catholicism, SDA, Protestant, various cults, Mormon
etc. all claim to possess the Sound Doctrine.

And..............they all conflict with each other.

But then again, WHO could I expect to have the answer
to even this question.

 

[Singer]

Thank You all for your contributions to this thread.


I'll end it as I started it with these comments:

However there is a WARNING to be aware of .......

1. Do not pray in the confines of your own home
2. Do not seek God with all your heart and mind
3. Do not read your bible diligently
4. Do not pray after a spiritually arousing bible study
5. Do not expect answers from God
6. Do not raise your hands in praise
7. Do not seek the baptism of the Holy Ghost

* Disregarding these posted rules could result in the most
enjoyable and edifying first-hand visit from the Holy Ghost
you could ever imagine.

Singer

 

[3AngelsMom]

Originally posted by Singer:
So Who Do We Believe ?

(II Timothy 4:2,3)
" For the time will come when they will NOT
endure sound doctrine but after their own desire will gather
to themselves a great number of teachers to say what their
itching ears want to hear. And they shall turn away their ears
from the Truth, and shall turn to fables."


Sound Doctrine seems to be anyone's guess.

The forces of Catholicism, SDA, Protestant, various cults, Mormon
etc. all claim to possess the Sound Doctrine.

And..............they all conflict with each other.

But then again, WHO could I expect to have the answer
to even this question.

I can answer that.

YOU answered it. The verse says that the time would come when people wouldn't ENDURE sound doctrine.

THAT, my friend, is WHY we have so many different denominations.

Trust the Word.

Be led of the Spirit.

He will guide you into all Truth.

God Bless

 

[Singer]

(3AM)

Trust the Word.

Be led of the Spirit.

He will guide you into all Truth.

(Singer)

I do

I do

I am

But yet we still have a chasm between us. (Sigh)

God's got some mighty tall explainin' to do to me someday

 

[3AngelsMom]

Singer,

You may someday look back and see NO chasm between us at all.

You aren't dead yet.

As our ever wise contender DHK stated:

"While there is life, there is hope"

God Bless

 

[Singer]

Originally posted by 3AngelsMom:


You may someday look back and see NO chasm between us at all.

You aren't dead yet.

As our ever wise contender DHK stated:

"While there is life, there is hope"

Yes and I feel the "NO CHASM" will be caused by the fact that we both
(do I dare say all on here) will have the Son because we each DO have
the Son. We got that status by following"

John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that
believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God
abideth on him.

1 John 5:12
He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son
of God hath not life.

So to those of us who believe, we have the Son and to have the
Son is to have life. That's why we proclaim that we ARE SAVED.
It's a done deal....Jesus isn't in the process of saving us; he already
saved us. His job is finished and he said so on the cross.

As a humor pun, would the opposite of DHK's statement be:
"Where there is no life, there is no hope. " Nah...course not.

In reality... When there is life OR death, there is hope

We have that assurance. Jesus died ONCE for us...he's not dying
anew each day.

No chasm ........really, just doctrinal differences that do not determine
loss of salvation.

Singer

 

[atestring]

Tongues did not cease in 70 AD. This cannot be proven.
It is a pat answer that people that buy into the "Cessationist Heresy" throw around.

 

[Briguy]

Atestring, Scripture spells out that tongues did cease about 70ad. It takes a serious study of some key verses but it is there. I am sure I went over it somewhere in this vast thread before. It is difficult for people who use tongues to hear that. I mean no offense to anyone. I still feel I must point out sound Biblical teaching.

In Christ,
Brian

 

[hrhema]

BriGuy: Yes you have explained it many times but it does not hold any water. The church did not cease to function in 70 A>D. nor was that the destruction of the Jewish people. That was the destruction of the city of Jersualem and Herod's temple.

Anyone can take anything and try to make it fit what they want to believe.

 

[Briguy]

H and A, First let me say that the scattering of the Jews was because of God's judgement on the people of Isreal. The "sign" of tongues pointed to the coming judgement, which ended in destruction as God said it would in Isaiah, which Paul quoted.

Anyway, answer this for me. In 1 Corinthians 13 ?? there is that verse that talks about prophecy, Knowledge, and tongues ending. In any translation the english wording for these gifts ending are different and that is because the Greek words are different. For knowledge and prophecy the greek word means that they will end when something happens. For tongues the Greek word means that "tongues" will end on their own, literally fizzle out. My question is: Why did Paul go to the trouble of using these different words to describe these gifts ending??

I think that is a good place to start in terms of what the Bible is saying to us about tongues. I wait eagerly for your reply.

In Christ,
Brian

 

[Briguy]

Hi All,
Any pro-tongues folks out there are welcome to address my question. Even if you do not use tongues yourself, go ahead and answer. Thanks Much!!

In Christ,
Brian

 

[Singer]

Anyway, answer this for me. In 1 Corinthians 13 ?? there is that verse that talks about prophecy, Knowledge, and tongues ending.

1 Corinthians 13:10
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.


Hi Brian,

Seems like there was alot of talk about what "perfect" means. If it's when Christ
returns, then we still have the gifts. The bible says when that time comes that we
will see clearly.

1 Cor 13:12
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in
part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

If my experience with tongues was from satan, then I'm going to quit praying to
God in heaven for answers and reading my bible.

Last "Go around" on here didn't accomplish anything either.

Singer

 

[hrhema]

I believe also that the scriptures tell us that tongues will cease along with other gifts when that which is perfect comes. It has been supposition for anyone to say that the IT is the Bible.

The Bible did not exist when Paul made this declaration. Paul had not even written all his letters yet to other churches. The writings of Peter and John and Jude and James etc had not been written. For individuals to claim this makes them look immature and desperate to prove something that has not happened as of yet.

DHK puts people down for telling their experiences but will turn right around and talk about sites where people are supposed to teach people how to talk in tongues which to me is an experience or bring up the Trinity Broadcast things.

All I know is I had not been taught anything about tongues. I came from a Baptist background and when I accepted Jesus I began speaking in tongues. Someone said that could have been the Devil. Why would he bother with a 14 year old kid?

 

[Briguy]

Hi Singer and Hrhema, You both totally avoided my question. Knowledge and prophecy end when the "perfect" comes. The Greek word used in the text means just that. NOT SO FOR TONGUES. This gift will end by itself, nothing has to happen to it. It ends at a different time then the other two and that is why Paul used different words here. What I want from you is another reason then what I stated, for Paul to use words that mean totally different things, when he discussed the ending of theses gifts. Just so you know I don't believe the "perfect" is the Bible. I understand that theory but I believe the service gifts are still in operation and so I believe the "perfect" is when we meet Jesus. (either when we die or when he sets up His Kingdom here, whatever happens first)

Your turn and Pleaseeeeeee answer my question this time.

In Love and Truth,
Brian

 

[hrhema]

The translation I use reads: "Love will last forever , but prophecy and speaking in unknown languages and special knowledge will all disappear. Now we know only a little, and even the gift of prophecy reveals little. But when the end comes, these special gifts will all disappear.

I do not see any distinction or separation in the cessastions of gifts here.

 

[Frank]

HI Briguy:

The scriptures do,indeed, teach miraculous gifts have ceased. It implied by the totality of the harmonious evidence. I Cor. 13:8-11 teaches us they would cease. The question is when? The Bible teaches us when that which is perfect is come. I Cor. 13:10. What is the perfect? There are three possibilities that men espouse. One, it is Christ. Two, it is Heaven. Three, it is the new testament of Jesus Christ. It is obvious all three answers cannot be correct. So, which is it?

Miraculous gifts were to confirm the word and complete us in the faith. Mark 16:17-20, Eph. 4:12.Of the miraculous John said in John 20;30,31, that miracles wer so that people might believe and that these are WRITTEN for that purpose. If this were to continue until the return of Christ, or when we got to heaven, he would said just look around you will see one.

These gifts were given by two methods. Holy Spirit baptism. Acts 2;1-4, Acts 10 or by the laying on of the apostles hands. Acts 8: 17,18. The first method was a PROMISE to be received. It was promised to the apostles Luke 24:46-51, Acts 2:1-4 and to the Gentiles. Acts 10. The second method was how anyone not included in the first group received the gifts. Therefore, for anyone to have miraculous spiritual gifts today,they would have to have hands placed on them by an apostle. This is impossible as all of them are dead.

If the perfect is Jesus' return or heaven, note the implications from the bible in Eph. 4;12-18.
1. There will be men in heaven trying to deceive people. If it is Christ, then he lied and we do not have all the truth as he promised. John 16:13.

2. There will be false doctrine in heaven. Rev. 20:10 condemns the false teacher to hell. If it is Christ, all things were not taught, learned, and observed as per Mat. 28:18-20.

3. If it is heaven, men will still be carried away with every doctrine. SEE Rev. 20:10.

4. If it is Christ or heaven, we sill still be immature. This violates II Tim. 3:16,17.

The only rational conclusion for the answer to the" perfect" question is the completed text of the revelation of God's will. It is the Bible. Therefore, since we have that which perfects us, we do not have the imperfect of I Cor. 13.

 

[hrhema]

The Word Apostle means sent one. According to the Bible this is one of the five fold ministry titles. There are Apostles today just like there are prophets, evangelists, pastor and teachers.
So Frank your logic is illogical.

Again the perfect is not the Bible. Never has been the Bible and never will be the Bible.

The miraculous has never ended and will not end until the end of time. Jesus said that there will be signs that followed believers. He did not state until certain things happen nor did he state just for certain believers. Even declared that those things that he did we could do them and even greater.

God said he is the Lord and he never changes. He has been a God of miracles and he never changes.
Jesus Christ the Same yesterday today and forever means just that.

Frank it is obvious you believe in an impotent and feeble God who at one time could perform miracles through his people but no longer has the ability to do so. My God has not changed and will never change. He will continue to heal. He will continue to do miracles. Tongues will continue to be a sign to the church of his supernatural power,

 

[MEE]

Why would anyone think that God gave gifts to 'His Church' and before the Church is completed take them away? Keep in mind, the Lord hasn't returned....yet!

It just doesn't make sense! We need them as much today as they did then....maybe even more.

MEE

 

[Singer]

".....until that which is perfect has come." (Jesus)