Top Ten Reasons Why Men Should Not Be Ordained

[DHK]

Having lived in Canada, and knowing its liberal culture, does one follow Canadian culture, or Scripture?

- Peace

We don't go by culture. I am a missionary. I won't say to what nations. But if I went to the nation in Africa where the women dressed topless would it then be proper for me to require my wife to do the same? This is what you suggest--follow the culture.

I don't follow culture. I follow the Word of God, as does our church.
And yes, we encourage and teach the wearing of head-coverings.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

There are places in Paul's writings where even he distinguishes what is coming from God and what is coming from him (Paul). That's how I interpret his writing about women in the church.

The ancient Celtic Church gave women equality with men in church leadership; they were not influenced by Roman culture or the Roman church until the Synod of Whitby.

All of this, plus the fact that there were women deacons and prophets, plus the fact that women were the first to see the resurrected Christ and had to convince Jesus's male apostles of the fact, leads me to believe that women are not restricted from teaching men nor from being pastors.

And to add to all that: the fact that there are many women convinced that God did indeed call them to pastoral ministry, with evidence of that call resulting in much good and fruitful service, is vindication that God calls both men and women to be pastors, as well as teachers. I would never have the audacity to tell such a woman that she was mistaken, and I certainly wouldn't say that to God!!

Based on that, I can say that I'm glad God is in charge and not some of His followers.

 

[DHK]

There are places in Paul's writings where even he distinguishes what is coming from God and what is coming from him (Paul). That's how I interpret his writing about women in the church.

The ancient Celtic Church gave women equality with men in church leadership; they were not influenced by Roman culture or the Roman church until the Synod of Whitby.

All of this, plus the fact that there were women deacons and prophets, plus the fact that women were the first to see the resurrected Christ and had to convince Jesus's male apostles of the fact, leads me to believe that women are not restricted from teaching men nor from being pastors.

And to add to all that: the fact that there are many women convinced that God did indeed call them to pastoral ministry, with evidence of that call resulting in much good and fruitful service, is vindication that God calls both men and women to be pastors, as well as teachers. I would never have the audacity to tell such a woman that she was mistaken, and I certainly wouldn't say that to God!!

Based on that, I can say that I'm glad God is in charge and not some of His followers.

So you read through your Bible and decide:
1. I don't like that doctrine--Chalk it up to culture.
2. That doctrine is okay--easy enough to obey--we'll practice it.
3. Nope, throw that one out the Bible. Hmmm, where did I put my scissors??
4. No, I can't live with that one either--too cultural.

Obedience is sacrificed on the altar of "culture." The Bible teaches no such thing. A few years ago it was in our culture for girls to wear miniskirts. Do you have daughters? Did you allow them to flow with the culture? Our culture is pushing for the legalization of marijuana, and some states for the legal unions of homosexuals. That is our culture today. Are you in agreement with our culture??

 

[lilyvalley]

So you read through your Bible and decide:
1. I don't like that doctrine--Chalk it up to culture.
2. That doctrine is okay--easy enough to obey--we'll practice it.
3. Nope, throw that one out the Bible. Hmmm, where did I put my scissors??
4. No, I can't live with that one either--too cultural.

I'm sure there sare some people who go about it this way, but I've never met any evangelical Christians who believe women can be in leadership say anything like that. I don't think Michael is doing that, either. It's all about how we are to interpret each passage to apply it to our lives today.

 

[Iconoclast]

There are places in Paul's writings where even he distinguishes what is coming from God and what is coming from him (Paul). That's how I interpret his writing about women in the church.

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

What Paul wrote is scripture.Scripture is the word of God written.

The ancient Celtic Church gave women equality with men in church leadership; they were not influenced by Roman culture or the Roman church until the Synod of Whitby.


This means nothing whatsoever,scriptuire is clear on this.

All of this, plus the fact that there were women deacons and prophets, plus the fact that women were the first to see the resurrected Christ and had to convince Jesus's male apostles of the fact, leads me to believe that women are not restricted from teaching men nor from being pastors.

what you "believe" does not matter...what scripture says does matter;

11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.




And to add to all that: the fact that there are many women convinced that God did indeed call them to pastoral ministry, with evidence of that call resulting in much good and fruitful service, is vindication that God calls both men and women to be pastors, as well as teachers. I would never have the audacity to tell such a woman that she was mistaken, and I certainly wouldn't say that to God!!

Based on that, I can say that I'm glad God is in charge and not some of His followers.

God gave His word so we know what to believe...your speculations stand against thetruth of God.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

There are places in Paul's writings where even he distinguishes what is coming from God and what is coming from him (Paul). That's how I interpret his writing about women in the church.


What Paul wrote is scripture.Scripture is the word of God written[/COLOR].

The ancient Celtic Church gave women equality with men in church leadership; they were not influenced by Roman culture or the Roman church until the Synod of Whitby.


This means nothing whatsoever,scriptuire is clear on this.

All of this, plus the fact that there were women deacons and prophets, plus the fact that women were the first to see the resurrected Christ and had to convince Jesus's male apostles of the fact, leads me to believe that women are not restricted from teaching men nor from being pastors.

what you "believe" does not matter...what scripture says does matter;


God gave His word so we know what to believe...your speculations stand against thetruth of God.

In 1 Cor. 7:10, Paul gives a command, and he emphasizes that it is God giving the command and not him. Two verses later, Paul makes another statement, but this time he emphasizes that it is he giving the command and not the Lord. I interpret his statements on women keeping silent in the church and wearing head coverings in the same way -- that this is his opinion and preference and not a command of the Lord. I thus base my views on scripture and the practice of the early church outside Rome. I am consistent in my views, whereas those who oppose women pastors are not because they do not also require women to wear a head covering in church. When every fundamentalist who opposes women pastors also requires their women to wear a head covering, I'll then at least be willing to respectfully listen to their views. Until then, none of you have any ground to stand on and lecture me about following scripture.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

I'm sure there sare some people who go about it this way, but I've never met any evangelical Christians who believe women can be in leadership say anything like that. I don't think Michael is doing that, either. It's all about how we are to interpret each passage to apply it to our lives today.

Exactly right; thank you.

 

[rbell]

It's all about how we are to interpret each passage to apply it to our lives today.

This statement, though sounding good on the surface, is man-centered. Let's do one better and stay God-centered throughout the process.

It doesn't matter what we interpret Scripture to say. It matters what Scripture says. And the Holy Spirit--who inspires the whole ball of wax anyhow--is perfectly capable of handling the interpretation side of the equation.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Ok just as I said the pro women Preachers bring up culture all you need to do now is follow is mention Dorcas and other women in the bible such as. Romans 16:7

Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among[a] the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.

or Acts 21 :8-9

Leaving the next day, we reached Caesarea and stayed at the house of Philip the evangelist, one of the Seven. 9 He had four unmarried daughters who prophesied.

or

Greet Priscilla[a] and Aquila, my co-workers in Christ Jesus. 4 They risked their lives for me. Not only I but all the churches of the Gentiles are grateful to them.

5 Greet also the church that meets at their house.

Romans 16-1

1 I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon[a] of the church in Cenchreae.

or Col 4:15

Give my greetings to the brothers and sisters at Laodicea, and to Nympha and the church in her house.

I'm actually suprised you haven't as yet brought these up. But from my experience this is the general route that is taken by people supporting female pastors.

 

[annsni]

In 1 Cor. 7:10, Paul gives a command, and he emphasizes that it is God giving the command and not him. Two verses later, Paul makes another statement, but this time he emphasizes that it is he giving the command and not the Lord. I interpret his statements on women keeping silent in the church and wearing head coverings in the same way -- that this is his opinion and preference and not a command of the Lord.

That is very convenient to support you views but the context of the Scripture do not support it. Paul is very clear - and his reasoning points back to creation - certainly NOT an idea Paul just came up with.

 

[Iconoclast]

In 1 Cor. 7:10, Paul gives a command, and he emphasizes that it is God giving the command and not him. Two verses later, Paul makes another statement, but this time he emphasizes that it is he giving the command and not the Lord. I interpret his statements on women keeping silent in the church and wearing head coverings in the same way -- that this is his opinion and preference and not a command of the Lord. I thus base my views on scripture and the practice of the early church outside Rome. I am consistent in my views, whereas those who oppose women pastors are not because they do not also require women to wear a head covering in church. When every fundamentalist who opposes women pastors also requires their women to wear a head covering, I'll then at least be willing to respectfully listen to their views. Until then, none of you have any ground to stand on and lecture me about following scripture.

Michael,
Paul is simply explaining when he heard Jesus directly speak about something....and when He as an apostle spoke by the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit gave all scripture......all scripture is God breathed...not Pauls opinion!
Your view of scripture is wrong, All christians believe in a head covering.Some think it is long hair, some think it is an external covering.

15And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also [B]the other scriptures[/B], unto their own destruction.

 

[preacher4truth]

We don't go by culture. I am a missionary. I won't say to what nations. But if I went to the nation in Africa where the women dressed topless would it then be proper for me to require my wife to do the same? This is what you suggest--follow the culture.

I don't follow culture. I follow the Word of God, as does our church.
And yes, we encourage and teach the wearing of head-coverings.

Nowhere have I suggested to follow culture. I've suggested that your country has a corrupt culture, not just America. Also, I believe Romans 12:1-2 tells us differently, and thus I reject your unfortunate remark regarding my beliefs.

For some reason you feel you must add to what I've said, act like it's true, then keep building on the same false premise.

 

[lilyvalley]

Your view of scripture is wrong, All christians believe in a head covering.Some think it is long hair, some think it is an external covering.

So I guess that makes me a horrible wretched sinner for keeping mine in a cute bob.

 

[DHK]

Nowhere have I suggested to follow culture. I've suggested that your country has a corrupt culture, not just America. Also, I believe Romans 12:1-2 tells us differently, and thus I reject your unfortunate remark regarding my beliefs.

For some reason you feel you must add to what I've said, act like it's true, then keep building on the same false premise.

If the Word of God is our standard (and it is), tell me, what culture is not corrupt?
So why the ugly and needless remark?

 

[Iconoclast]

So I guess that makes me a horrible wretched sinner for keeping mine in a cute bob.

Hello Lilly V....
Where you stand before God is between you and him. i am not here to judge you.I was speaking to michael about what the scripture says...like here;

5But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

6For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
7For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

13Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?

14Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

Lilly....here are the passages in 1 cor 11. this is what I was speaking of
Do you see what it says? You have to live your life before God...in a way that is pleasing to Him.
I do find it interesting that rebellious feminist types,and so called lesbians when they want to show their defiance.....have extremely short hair, that people refer to as "butch" hairstyle.....
I am not the hair police as i have turned most of mine loose:laugh:..
but I do remove any hat I am wearing when I pray....and if i had hair it would not be long because of this passage.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Hallelujah! I've seen the light! God doesn't call Catholic women or fundamentalist Baptist women as pastors, but He does call Methodist women, Episcopal women, Presbyterian women, Lutheran women, moderate Baptist women, Charismatic women, Pentecostal women, Disciples of Christ women, Quaker women, Nazarene women, and many, many other women as pastors, and He blesses their faithful service with multitudes of souls added to His Kingdom.

So, while the former can be satisfied that they are keeping women in their place, the latter can rejoice in the liberty and equality in Christ that they allow their women to have while not trying to tell God whom He can and cannot call.

So, I thank my fundamentalist brethren (no pun intended) for helping me to see the two distinct classes of women within Christendom.

 

[billwald]

Maybe the Bible was anticipating climate change and increased UV radiation. Christians will wear head protection and the heathen will die of cancer.

 

[annsni]

Hallelujah! I've seen the light! God doesn't call Catholic women or fundamentalist Baptist women as pastors, but He does call Methodist women, Episcopal women, Presbyterian women, Lutheran women, moderate Baptist women, Charismatic women, Pentecostal women, Disciples of Christ women, Quaker women, Nazarene women, and many, many other women as pastors, and He blesses their faithful service with multitudes of souls added to His Kingdom.

So, while the former can be satisfied that they are keeping women in their place, the latter can rejoice in the liberty and equality in Christ that they allow their women to have while not trying to tell God whom He can and cannot call.

So, I thank my fundamentalist brethren (no pun intended) for helping me to see the two distinct classes of women within Christendom.

No, all of those churches are being disobedient to the Scriptures and why I will not become a member of any of those. I WAS Presbyterian in a very conservative Presbyterian church but we left that denomination. I thank God for a church that does not put women under the feet but instead allows women to minister with their God-given talents within the guidelines of Scripture.

 

[Iconoclast]

Hallelujah! I've seen the light! God doesn't call Catholic women or fundamentalist Baptist women as pastors, but He does call Methodist women, Episcopal women, Presbyterian women, Lutheran women, moderate Baptist women, Charismatic women, Pentecostal women, Disciples of Christ women, Quaker women, Nazarene women, and many, many other women as pastors, and He blesses their faithful service with multitudes of souls added to His Kingdom.

So, while the former can be satisfied that they are keeping women in their place, the latter can rejoice in the liberty and equality in Christ that they allow their women to have while not trying to tell God whom He can and cannot call.

So, I thank my fundamentalist brethren (no pun intended) for helping me to see the two distinct classes of women within Christendom.

Any church who ordains a woman or sodomite to the pulpit is in direct rebellion against God. God has given commands who are to be ordained.
He did not ask for our imput,or "enlightened ideas"

 

[DHK]

Ok just as I said the pro women Preachers bring up culture all you need to do now is follow is mention Dorcas and other women in the bible such as. Romans 16:7

Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me. (Romans 16:7)

7. Andronicus and Junia--or, as it might be, "Junias," a contracted form of "Junianus"; in this case, it is a man's name. But if, as is more probable, the word be, as in our version, "Junia," the person meant was no doubt either the wife or the sister of Andronicus. (Jamieson, Faucett and Brown)
--Either way, man or woman, the woman is under the husband, and it would be the husband addressed and the woman's name given as if an honorable mention. It is like addressing a letter today: Pastor and Mrs.___, but normally it is the Pastor that the letter is actually addressed to, his work and his ministry.

As for Dorcas, the people loved her for her good works.

or Acts 21 :8-9

And the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him. And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy. (Acts 21:8-9)
--This is unusual. But we note that the gift of prophecy has ceased. It is no longer a function of the local church today.

or

Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus: Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles. Likewise greet the church that is in their house. (Romans 16:3-5)

--So they were to Greet Priscilla and Aquilla who helped them. Would to God more people in the churches would help out their pastors!! They also opened up their house for the church to meet in. Praise God for that. Remember it wasn't for about 300 years after that time that there was any church building dedicated solely for the use of church services. The churches all met in houses, fields, cemeteries, or just wherever they could.

Romans 16-1
I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: (Romans 16:1)

Phebe was not a pastor either. She was a servant of the church as is says she was. Apparently she was sent to Rome with a message (perhaps written) to give to them. They were to receive her hospitably.

or Col 4:15

Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house. (Colossians 4:15)
--It is good to see people offering their houses for members to meet in. That would be a good idea even today. Invite people over. Have small cottage prayer meetings. Pray for your pastor, special meetings, people in need, etc. Do what you can. Why would you criticize people for doing that?

I'm actually suprised you haven't as yet brought these up. But from my experience this is the general route that is taken by people supporting female pastors.

Why would anyone criticize someone for doing good?
There is no evidence anywhere here of a woman being a pastor.