Topics that ruffle your feathers?

[JosephBKuzara]

Joseph, you are making an unsubstantiated judgment upon those who die by suicide, saying that they can, in no way, have been chosen and adopted children of God. There is no substantial proof in scripture for your assertion. Therefore you are stating an opinion, which you are welcome to hold, that is not, nor can it be, fact.
I happen to hold a different opinion and view your opinion as a simplistic opinion not born out in experience.

It is not a opinion or unsubstantiated claim as I have appealed to scripture only showing the ungodly committing suicide, while it is the saints who although suffering corrective discipline and scourging along with for Righteous obedience by God's Grace found comfort, patience, joy, hope, peace, endurance and perseverance in suffering for the Messiah partaking in His suffering by privilege. They were not recorded or prophesied of giving up in there walk by commiting to suicide in the past recordings nor in the future prophesies.

I have a tangible contextual reason to believe what scripture is conveying, but you do not

 

[Yeshua1]

It is not a opinion or unsubstantiated claim as I have appealed to scripture only showing the ungodly committing suicide, while it is the saints who although suffering corrective discipline and scourging along with for Righteous obedience by God's Grace found comfort, patience, joy, hope, peace, endurance and perseverance in suffering for the Messiah partaking in His suffering by privilege. They were not recorded or prophesied of giving up in there walk by commiting to suicide in the past recordings nor in the future prophesies.

I have a tangible contextual reason to believe what scripture is conveying, but you do not

So the grace of God cannot cover that specific sin, correct?

 

[evenifigoalone]

It is not a opinion or unsubstantiated claim as I have appealed to scripture only showing the ungodly committing suicide, while it is the saints who although suffering corrective discipline and scourging along with for Righteous obedience by God's Grace found comfort, patience, joy, hope, peace, endurance and perseverance in suffering for the Messiah partaking in His suffering by privilege. They were not recorded or prophesied of giving up in there walk by commiting to suicide in the past recordings nor in the future prophesies.

I have a tangible contextual reason to believe what scripture is conveying, but you do not

You have been completely ignoring my challenges to your use of scripture. Curious.

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[Particular]

It is not a opinion or unsubstantiated claim as I have appealed to scripture only showing the ungodly committing suicide, while it is the saints who although suffering corrective discipline and scourging along with for Righteous obedience by God's Grace found comfort, patience, joy, hope, peace, endurance and perseverance in suffering for the Messiah partaking in His suffering by privilege. They were not recorded or prophesied of giving up in there walk by commiting to suicide in the past recordings nor in the future prophesies.

I have a tangible contextual reason to believe what scripture is conveying, but you do not

You are arguing from silence. You are claiming that since the Bible does not record a believer committing suicide, therefore believers cannot commit suicide.
You are asserting that therefore only unbeliever's can commit suicide.

It is an assertion. You use single verses, with no regard to context, to prooftext your assertion. Yet, as I showed, your assertion comes from silence.

If it helps you, however, the same silence applies to the assertion that a person can be a Christian and commit suicide.

Therefore, my question regarding grace becomes very relevant. Is God's grace not sufficient to keep the believer who wavers in faith and kills himself?

 

[JosephBKuzara]

If suicide is a behavior of non-Christians only as you say, then it shouldn't matter whether one encourages them or not, amirite. So if one is truly saved, by your logic, how can I hurt them by my methods. They won't go through with it anyways, according to you. (Unless you believe salvation can be lost?)

At any rate, we are not going to come to any sort of agreement any time soon. I continue on for the sake of those who are silently reading this conversation.
And so far as that goes, I'll just say that your last few posts have been opinion only. I had responded to your scripture references, and will respond to the last post you made with scripture references this evening. You didn't respond to my counters to your use of scripture at all, maybe start there.

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[JosephBKuzara]

It is harmful because even though a true Christian will not commit suicide, by your beliefs you could lead them astray for a moment
that suicide is a act that saints can succomb to having them temporarily accept a lie and spread that lie. And even further blood will be on your hands of those who are not true saints and have embraced your heresy ,who may even follow through with it because you comforted them in thinking that giving up during our required suffering is ok. of which I have already appealed to God's promises that through such grace He provides everything we need in order to not give up and why no saint is recorded in the entire Bible ever committing to suicide. Yet you want to present this lie without an physical example to solidify your claim.

The passages I presented are sufficient enough that God is able to keep all of His children from suicide and recorded history of God's children shows God to be true and you a liar.

 

[JosephBKuzara]

You are arguing from silence. You are claiming that since the Bible does not record a believer committing suicide, therefore believers cannot commit suicide.
You are asserting that therefore only unbeliever's can commit suicide.

It is an assertion. You use single verses, with no regard to context, to prooftext your assertion. Yet, as I showed, your assertion comes from silence.

If it helps you, however, the same silence applies to the assertion that a person can be a Christian and commit suicide.

Therefore, my question regarding grace becomes very relevant. Is God's grace not sufficient to keep the believer who wavers in faith and kills himself?

 

[JosephBKuzara]

would we not see it in scripture as other sins committed by the saints?

Why is suicide absent from the 900+ years of historical records showing sins that saints are capable of stumbling into if indeed by your claim a saint is able to succomb to it?

suicide is mentioned in scripture to which only records the unsaved capable of succombing to it.

we do not see suicide being a sin that a saint succombs to but we see every other sin the saints have stumbled into and recorded for a reason.

There are certain sins Saints will not be allowed to succomb to because of God's working in us to will and act toward His good pleasure while sustaining His Faith within us.

Only amongst those who have no God and no hope in the world have been recorded in scripture succombing to the sin of suicide.

It is fascinating to take notice of this pattern because God provisions by His promise and command that we have comfort, joy, peace, patience, rejoicement, perseverance, hope and endurance suffering in Christ and for Christ.


I believe we are done, because you believe God will allow the perils of this world to overcome His children to the point of where they give up in carrying there own pole while following after Christ by killing themselves. Such is not a authentication of someone who is saved by faith in order to be sanctified in suffering to be made into the image of Yeshua.


Sense you won't find one scriptural example of any saint falling to the sin of suicide while the ungodly have, it is quite clear who is in the wrong and who is not.

You out of pride do not want to accept you are wrong even though you can't provide one recording of suicide by any saint OT and NT.

 

[evenifigoalone]

It is harmful because even though a true Christian will not commit suicide, by your beliefs you could lead them astray for a moment
that suicide is a act that saints can succomb to having them temporarily accept a lie and spread that lie. And even further blood will be on your hands of those who are not true saints and have embraced your heresy ,who may even follow through with it because you comforted them in thinking that giving up during our required suffering is ok. of which I have already appealed to God's promises that through such grace He provides everything we need in order to not give up and why no saint is recorded in the entire Bible ever committing to suicide. Yet you want to present this lie without an physical example to solidify your claim.

The passages I presented are sufficient enough that God is able to keep all of His children from suicide and recorded history of God's children shows God to be true and you a liar.

Again, you have yet to respond to my challenges of your use of scripture. I have debunked them sufficiently. Start there. This post contains only your opinion.

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[Revmitchell]

Again, you have yet to respond to my challenges of your use of scripture. I have debunked them sufficiently. Start there. This post contains only your opinion.

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There are knucklheads like thus one who wander around the internet trying to stir up trouble. We have responded to jim 9nce outside of that we should leave him alone else you feed this garbage.

 

[Particular]

would we not see it in scripture as other sins committed by the saints?

Why is suicide absent from the 900+ years of historical records showing sins that saints are capable of stumbling into if indeed by your claim a saint is able to succomb to it?

suicide is mentioned in scripture to which only records the unsaved capable of succombing to it.

we do not see suicide being a sin that a saint succombs to but we see every other sin the saints have stumbled into and recorded for a reason.

There are certain sins Saints will not be allowed to succomb to because of God's working in us to will and act toward His good pleasure while sustaining His Faith within us.

Only amongst those who have no God and no hope in the world have been recorded in scripture succombing to the sin of suicide.

It is fascinating to take notice of this pattern because God provisions by His promise and command that we have comfort, joy, peace, patience, rejoicement, perseverance, hope and endurance suffering in Christ and for Christ.


I believe we are done, because you believe God will allow the perils of this world to overcome His children to the point of where they give up in carrying there own pole while following after Christ by killing themselves. Such is not a authentication of someone who is saved by faith in order to be sanctified in suffering to be made into the image of Yeshua.


Sense you won't find one scriptural example of any saint falling to the sin of suicide while the ungodly have, it is quite clear who is in the wrong and who is not.

You out of pride do not want to accept you are wrong even though you can't provide one recording of suicide by any saint OT and NT.

My question regarding grace becomes very relevant. Is God's grace not sufficient to keep the believer who wavers in faith and kills himself?

God did not record a believer committing suicide in scripture. God also did not record a believer wearing fruit of the loom underwear. Silence does not make doctrine.

 

[JosephBKuzara]

This post is wrong, unscriptural, and dangerous. Therefore it is evil. You need to stop talking about things you know not of. Shame on you.

This fella is not to be paid attention to. His view is an outlier and unorthodox. Pay him no mind.

Reverend huh? Using lofty titles for yourself instead of calling your self brother Mitchell as Christ commanded. Why should I Revere you?


Those born from above will listen to those God has sent, because you are not from above along with anyone who rejects the truth I present without repentance, is still a child of wrath.

I have warned everyone more than once either with sound doctrine reasoning and logic which all comes from God to defend His truth against any lofty thought against God's revealed knowledge.

There are certain sins God does not allow His children to succomb to, that revolves around disbelieving Christ. Following through with Suicide is a sin that involves distrust, cowardice and giving up on ones walk in Christ as they become the 3rd soil that fell away from the faith when life became to tough for them to handle. Anyone who does not think that the act of suicide is giving up, and a distrust of God wholeheartedly are foolish in thinking submitting to the wisdom of the world and not to wisdom that comes from above.

 

[JosephBKuzara]

My question regarding grace becomes very relevant. Is God's grace not sufficient to keep the believer who wavers in faith and kills himself?

God did not record a believer committing suicide in scripture. God also did not record a believer wearing fruit of the loom underwear. Silence does not make doctrine.

That is a really stupid analogy. There are patterns set forth of what sets apart a saint from a sinner so one can know in part who is of God and is not. Saints will carry themselves through God's working of which sets them apart in behavior from the ungodly.

 

[alexander284]

Reverend huh? Using lofty titles for yourself instead of calling your self brother Mitchell as Christ commanded. Why should I Revere you?


Those born from above will listen to those God has sent, because you are not from above along with anyone who rejects the truth I present without repentance, is still a child of wrath.

I have warned everyone more than once either with sound doctrine reasoning and logic which all comes from God to defend His truth against any lofty thought against God's revealed knowledge.

There are certain sins God does not allow His children to succomb to, that revolves around disbelieving Christ. Following through with Suicide is a sin that involves distrust, cowardice and giving up on ones walk in Christ as they become the 3rd soil that fell away from the faith when life became to tough for them to handle. Anyone who does not think that the act of suicide is giving up, and a distrust of God wholeheartedly are foolish in thinking submitting to the wisdom of the world and not to wisdom that comes from above.

I certainly agree with you on the "Reverend" point.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Those born from above will listen to those God has sent, because you are not from above along with anyone who rejects the truth I present without repentance, is still a child of wrath.

I have warned everyone more than once either with sound doctrine reasoning and logic which all comes from God to defend His truth against any lofty thought against God's revealed knowledge.

Wow. Get over yourself. Also, if your "truth" cannot handle objective criticism (by which I mean, an objective and honest, in context look at the scriptures you used) to the point you refuse to counter it, maybe you need to revise what you consider to be "truth"

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[Particular]

That is a really stupid analogy. There are patterns set forth of what sets apart a saint from a sinner so one can know in part who is of God and is not. Saints will carry themselves through God's working of which sets them apart in behavior from the ungodly.

You have not yet answered.

Is God's grace not sufficient to keep the believer who wavers in faith and kills himself?

 

[Salty]

Reverend huh? Using lofty titles for yourself instead of calling your self brother Mitchell as Christ commanded. Why should I Revere you?
.

1) Where does Christ command I use the title "Brother" for other Christians?
2) I, like Rev Mitchell, use the title Rev - when appropriate. The Bible does NOT forbid it.
And in our culture it is a sign of respect for the office we hold. While I am it- in this current day and age - we have a lack of respect.
3) and in addition - I do not allow children to call me by my first name. - Again, we need to teach our children respect - and using titles is one way to teach it.
Hmm - I wonder if Rev Mitchell agrees with me on point # 3.

 

[JosephBKuzara]

His "advise" could be very damaging to any among us who are experiencing such issues....

How? God is able to sustain His elect children from being defeated and overcome by sin, should that truth not instead encourage you to move forward while entrusting God to provide comfort, joy, hope ,peace, patience, endurance , faithfulness and endurance while we partake in Jesus' suffering instead of being comfortable with giving up because many have taught wrongly that it is ok?

God's grace does not save a person to then allow them to give up in there walk as a disciple of Christ and so this should cause dependence and trust in God to strengthen us in our time of need by His grace when we face weaknesses in our flesh.

This is why no saint in scripture is recorded following through with suicide, it is not an argument from silence as many have claimed toward me but a pattern of behavior a saint is not capable of following through with because of God's promises and gifts He provisions to gaurd our hearts and minds in order to remain faithful unto death to which will either result through God's discipline, by the hands of evil men and or by our own decaying health.

If anyone here is being tempted by demons with suicide by your own desire or by an intrusive proposition not from desire as what Jesus went through, submit to God and with faith petition to God to help you overcome such feelings so you can move forward.

Know that God will not allow his children to give up when suffering is purposed as a privilege to learn obedience and fulfill God's will to glorify Him.

Although discipline is not pleasant but painful it is for our good and even if you suffer unjustly God will give you strength to endure. Such suffering will not go unnoticed and God will provision for his children the ability to move forward.

 

[JosephBKuzara]

Yes your culture, but not

So the grace of God cannot cover that specific sin, correct?

The sin of following through with suicide falls into the category of practicing sin which is an authentication that they did not believe in Christ and His provisions toward them. Thus salvation was never granted to them to begin with and why they continued in sin that led them to be defeated by it.

God is quite clear of His promises that He provides everything we need to not give up in our walk in Christ when suffering takes place. That even though we do suffer whether by mental or physical means unjustly and through learning obedience by His discipline and scourging we will not be defeated by sin but overcome and such is why no saint was ever recorded of following through with suicide being defeated by it as is those who practice sin. Which is recorded as a pattern of the unbelieving in scripture.

It is up to God to open all of your minds and persuade you if you all indeed are born again.

 

[JosephBKuzara]

1) Where does Christ command I use the title "Brother" for other Christians?
2) I, like Rev Mitchell, use the title Rev - when appropriate. The Bible does NOT forbid it.
And in our culture it is a sign of respect for the office we hold. While I am it- in this current day and age - we have a lack of respect.
3) and in addition - I do not allow children to call me by my first name. - Again, we need to teach our children respect - and using titles is one way to teach it.
Hmm - I wonder if Rev Mitchell agrees with me on point # 3.

Church Leaders and the Use of Honorific Titles

You earn respect by your faithfulness to God in being a slave to others with humility in your service towards the maturity of the brothers, sisters and mothers in Christ not through an self appointed honorary title. That Jesus forbade.