"Torah Observant"

[Chowmah]

Could it then have something to do with the blessing and the curse

Deuteronomy 30:1-10 (KJV)
1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath driven thee,

This is the 10 scattered tribes. The lost sheep of the house of Israel that were scattered amoung the gentiles

2 And shalt return unto the Lord thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
3 That then the Lord thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath scattered thee.
4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the Lord thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
5 And the Lord thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

This is all about the gathering of Gods people in the end of days. Itll be done in the "twinlking of an eye" and then brought into the land promised for the 1000 yr period of rest

6 And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
7 And the Lord thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.
8 And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the Lord, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.

This is when God puts his law in our hearts

9 And the Lord thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the Lord will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers:
10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.

Dont know for sure if this is about the accursed of Gal.1 but it sure does get me to thinkin

 

[Chowmah]

So your saying the "accursed" of Gal.1 is the same as the "cursed" of Gal.3


But Gal.3 says you are cursed if you do not continue in all the things which are written in the law to do them

Says the same thing in Deut.30. The cursed are those who are not following Gods law

 

[Chowmah]

"Gal. 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

He is talking about all 600 plus commandments found in the book of Moses from Genesis to Deuteronomy. - "ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN""
...
"ON THESE TWO Commandments hang the WHOLE Law"

Which Two?

"Love God above all ... you neighbour as yourself".

No GE

MATT.22 [35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?[37] Jesus said unto him, THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THY HEART, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.[38] This is the first and great commandment.[39] And the second is like unto it, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF.[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Why do you believe that we no longer need keep Gods commandments because of what Jesus said in Matthew?

DEUT.6 [5] And THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THINE HEART, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.[6] And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart [17] Ye shall diligently KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of the LORD your God, and his testimonies, and his statutes, which he hath commanded thee.

Jesus was only quoting scriptures from the old testament. And as you can see in above scripture the way to love GOD is to keep diligently the commandments.

1JOHN 5 [2] By this we know that we love the children of God, WHEN WE LOVE GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.[3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

And the new testament verifies the old testament as to how we are to show our love for God? In the new testament book of John. When we love God, we keep His commandments.

LEV.19 [17] Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.[18] Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF: I am the LORD.

Again (thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself) Jesus is quoting scripture from the old testament. Do you agree that the people who lived in old testament times were under the 10 commandments. Of course they were. So why when Jesus quotes old testament scripture do you think the 10 commandments are now done away with?

2JOHN1 [5] And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that WE LOVE ONE ANOTHER.[6] AND THIS IS LOVE, THAT WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

In John, you can read how we are to love our neighbour according to the NEW TESTAMENT. It’s the same way that it says in the old testament. KEEP GODS 10 COMMANDMENTS. Jesus is the same today, yesterday and forever.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Says the same thing in Deut.30. The cursed are those who are not following Gods law

Galatians 1:8-9 is a directive to the Galatian Christians "let them be". This defines how the Galatian Christians are to regard and treat them.

Galatains 3:10 has Deut. 30 in view.

What you fail to understand is that you are already under the curse of the law, already "condemned" (Jn. 3:18) already under its wrath (Jn. 3:36) because you have already "sinned" and "come short." That is precisely why you cannot now or ever be justified by doing the works of the law. That is precisely why your only hope for justification is by faith in Christ because Christ has been made a "curse FOR US" - Gal. 3:13.

Think slow and carefully about every word I said above and the relationships between the words I have said above.

 

[Dr. Walter]

No GE

MATT.22 [35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?[37] Jesus said unto him, THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THY HEART, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.[38] This is the first and great commandment.[39] And the second is like unto it, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF.[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Why do you believe that we no longer need keep Gods commandments because of what Jesus said in Matthew?

DEUT.6 [5] And THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THINE HEART, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.[6] And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart [17] Ye shall diligently KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of the LORD your God, and his testimonies, and his statutes, which he hath commanded thee.

Jesus was only quoting scriptures from the old testament. And as you can see in above scripture the way to love GOD is to keep diligently the commandments.

1JOHN 5 [2] By this we know that we love the children of God, WHEN WE LOVE GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.[3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

And the new testament verifies the old testament as to how we are to show our love for God? In the new testament book of John. When we love God, we keep His commandments.

LEV.19 [17] Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.[18] Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF: I am the LORD.

Again (thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself) Jesus is quoting scripture from the old testament. Do you agree that the people who lived in old testament times were under the 10 commandments. Of course they were. So why when Jesus quotes old testament scripture do you think the 10 commandments are now done away with?

2JOHN1 [5] And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that WE LOVE ONE ANOTHER.[6] AND THIS IS LOVE, THAT WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

In John, you can read how we are to love our neighbour according to the NEW TESTAMENT. It’s the same way that it says in the old testament. KEEP GODS 10 COMMANDMENTS. Jesus is the same today, yesterday and forever.

Keeping the law is the way to obtain eternal life just as long as you never fall under its condemnation. Keeping the law is demonstrating love for God just as long as you dont violate the law. This is one part of the truth you grasp. However, it is the other part you do not grasp.

The part you do not grasp is that once you violate the law, once you have sinned, you enter a new relationship with the law as a VIOLATER and thus are CONDEMNED by the law and those condemned are condemned to DEATH not life and are under its WRATH not approval. You fail to see that you are a VIOLATER and no longer qualify for the approval of the law as the law will never approve a sinner. You need but violate the law in one point to come under its condemation. Therefore the proper definition of keeping the law means NEVER to fail in ONE POINT as it takes only failure in ONE point to violate EVERY point and come under its ETERNAL condemnation. You do not grasp this truth. You do not grasp that the law has already judged you as a sinner, condemned you to death and there is no hope of being justified by keeping the law as you do not possess the ability to keep the law according to what the Law requires - NO VIOLATION OF IT AT ANY POINT.

Keeping the law means NO POINT VIOLATION, it is what Christ mean when he said "if thou wilt be PERFECT" it is what Paul meant when he said all have sinned and come short of "the glory of God" it is what Jesus meant when he said "Be ye therefore PERFECT even as your Father in heaven is PERFECT" it is what James meant when he said to fail in only "one point" of the law is to fail every point of the law.

Until you grasp this second aspect you will never understand why the Gospel means "good news" because you have yet to grasp the bad news.

 

[Chowmah]

Galatians 1:8-9 is a directive to the Galatian Christians "let them be". This defines how the Galatian Christians are to regard and treat them.

Galatains 3:10 has Deut. 30 in view.

What you fail to understand is that you are already under the curse of the law, already "condemned" (Jn. 3:18) already under its wrath (Jn. 3:36) because you have already "sinned" and "come short." That is precisely why you cannot now or ever be justified by doing the works of the law. That is precisely why your only hope for justification is by faith in Christ because Christ has been made a "curse FOR US" - Gal. 3:13.

Actually i do understand what youve written and i agree that we can never be justified by the works of the law but only by our faith in Christ but we do not make void His law. His 10 commandments. We are still under His law but if we walk in Christ we are not under the curse of the law.

 

[Chowmah]

Until you grasp this second aspect you will never understand why the Gospel means "good news" because you have yet to grasp the bad news.

What you dont understand is you must 1st repent (breaking Gods laws) and then you can believe this "gospel" you speak of

MATTHEW 3 [1] In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, [2] And saying, REPENT YE: FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND. [3] For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

John the Baptist said You must 1st repent

MATTHEW 4 [16] The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up. [17] From that time JESUS BEGAN TO PREACH, AND TO SAY, REPENT: FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND.

Jesus says you must first repent

MARK 1 [14] Now after that John was put in prison, JESUS CAME INTO GALILEE, PREACHING THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD, [15] And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: REPENT YE, AND BELIEVE the gospel.

Jesus says repent and believe the gospel.See what Jesus said there Doc. Believe Him. There are those who claim they believe and yet have not 1st repented. So what are we to repent of before we can believe the good news of the kingdom? Sin of course. We are 1st to repent of sin. What is sin according to the new covenant scriptures?

1 JOHN 3 [4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

JOHN 3 [5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of WATER and of the SPIRIT, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

MATTHEW 3 [11] I indeed baptize you with WATER UNTO REPENTANCE: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with THE HOLY GHOST, and with fire:

Once again, you 1st repent of your sins and then receive the Holy Spirit. So according to scripture is there something you must do to receive the free gift of grace. Yeah, we must repent of sin and keep Gods 10 commandments

ACTS 2 [36] Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. [37] Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? [38] Then Peter said unto them, REPENT, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, AND YE SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST.

MATTHEW 21 [32] For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, REPENTED NOT AFTERWARD, THAT YE MIGHT BELIEVE him.

Two above scriptures speak for themselves

 

[Chowmah]

We are beginning to drift from Gal.1{8&9}. Lets not do that. Weve been there before

 

[Dr. Walter]

We are still under His law

Gal. 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith:

Ga 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Rom. 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Rom. 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.


How then do we harmonize these emphatic and repeated statements by Paul that we are no longer "under the law" but under grace and that we are "dead to the law" with what he said in Romans 3:31???

Rom. 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

1. First note, he did not say we are "under the law" in verse 31 but only that the law is not made "void" through faith.

2. Second note, he did not say through faith we are "under the law" but rather through faith we "establish" the law.

Hence, how does the immediate context defines justification by grace through faith in such a way that it does not make "void" the law but rather establishes the law? The answer is very simple.

In Romans 3:23 we have already made "void" the righteousness of the law by our own lives of sin. Our obedience did not "establish" the law in our own life - we sinned.

In Romans 3:24-26 God made a provision to "establish" the law through the substitutionary Person and life of Jesus Christ. The law was established in the life of Christ - he did no sin, he knew no sin and neither was sin found in him. The obedient life of Christ did not make the law "void" but established the law's demands for sinless perfection and his death satisfied the law's penalty for sin, NOT FOR HIS SINS but for OUR SINS.

In Romans 3:24-26 faith does not make void the law of God but establishes it because in Romans 3:24-26 saving faith is "in His blood" and "in Jesus Christ" as our Substitute before God rather than in our own satisfaction of the Law's demands. When a person denies himself (repentance) and beleives IN Jesus Christ as the full satisfaction for all the law's demands FOR THE SINNER, then the law is completely established in the object of our faith - Jesus Christ as he then becomes our righteousness, our sanctification, our redemption and thus our hope of eternal life.

Faith does not make the law void because faith has for its object NOT US and NOT OUR OBEDEINCE but Jesus Christ and His complete satisfaction through his life and death FOR US.

Now, when a person trusts in Christ he is at the same time born again, or given a desire to obey God's commandments because he now LOVES God. He is not obeying God's commandments in order to be saved but because he is saved. He is not obeying God's commandments in order to be justified by HIS OWN WORKS but because he has been justified by CHRIST'S OWN WORKS for him and faith embraces this completed satisfaction.

Carefully consider what I have said above and in the precise order I have said it and in the precise relationship I have given.

(1) Your works make void and destroy the righteousness of the law in your life

(2) Christ's works establish and satisfy the righteousne of the law in his life FOR US.

(3) Faith embraces Christ and His satisfaction of the law FOR US and thus the law is not made void through this faith but established because this faith is in Christ's obedience FOR US not our obedience.

 

[billwald]

"What is the greatest law of the traffic code?"

"No drunk driving. And the second is no reckless driving."

Does the driver who observes the two greatest laws automatically observe the rest of the traffic code? If a person perfectly observed the traffic code for his entire life could we obtain absolution in traffic court by believing in his merit?

 

[Dr. Walter]

"What is the greatest law of the traffic code?"

"No drunk driving. And the second is no reckless driving."

Does the driver who observes the two greatest laws automatically observe the rest of the traffic code? If a person perfectly observed the traffic code for his entire life could we obtain absolution in traffic court by believing in his merit?

The problem with you analogy is two fold.

1. Like the Pharisees you interpet the law strictly by its superficial character rather than by its moral foundation that underlies each individual law and binds them together by one principle - moral righteousness.

2. Every aspect of God's law is inseparably founded upon moral righteousness.


Now, let us look at your examples through the Bibical lenses. Drunk driver is due to drunkeness and drunkeness is moral irresponsibility to be moderate in all things.

Now, the root of reckless driving is the same foundational moral issue - moral irresponsibility - lack of moderation which would require responsible driving.

However, this is not to say that every human law enacted by evil governments is morally united with every other governmental law because governments legislate evil.

But God's government never legislates evil and therefore by that very definition every individual law has the same moral foundation and therefore is united together and to violate one is to violate all becuase all share the one and same moral foundation.

 

[Chowmah]

When ya wanna get back to Gal.1 let me know Doc

PSALM 94 [11] The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity.12] Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O LORD, and teachest him out of thy law;[13] That thou mayest give him rest from the days of adversity, until the pit be digged for the wicked.

Teach man out of thy law, until pit digged for the wicked. The bottomless pit?

PSALM 119 [84] How many are the days of thy servant? when wilt thou execute judgment on them that persecute me? [85] The proud have digged pits for me, which are not after thy law.[86] All thy commandments are faithful: they persecute me wrongfully; help thou me.

They who are not after the law have dug pits and ALL thy commandments are faithful...the 4th?

PROVERBS 28 [9] He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.[10] Whoso causeth the righteous to go astray in an evil way, he shall fall himself into his own pit: but the upright shall have good things in possession.

Those who turn from hearing the law will fall into pit they themselves dug.

PSALM 7 [15] He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made.

ISAIAH 24 [3] The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.[4] The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.[5] The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; BECAUSE THEY HAVE TRANSGRESSED THE LAWS, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.[6] Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.[17] Fear, and THE PIT, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.[18] And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall FALL INTO THE PIT; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.[22] And they shall be gathered together, AS PRISONERS ARE GATHERED IN THE PIT, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

Well, heres the end of the story. The DAY OF THE LORD. Those that practice transgressing the law of God will end up in the pit and scripture says in Revelation that those that keep the commandments of God (Exodus 20) and have the testimony of Jesus will end up in the Kingdom. Those in the pit will be visited after many days. A thousand years maybe?

REV.20 [1] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of THE BOTTOMLESS PIT and a great chain in his hand.[2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

YUP. A thousand years. Looks like those that do not observe to keep Gods 10 commandments will be having some company in the pit. Kinda makes Saddams wormhole look rather appealing.

 

[Chowmah]

Do you fear the Lord?

ACTS 9 [31] Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.

MATTHEW 15 [8] This people draweth nigh unto me with THEIR MOUTH, and honoureth me with THEIR LIPS; but THEIR HEART IS FAR FROM ME. [9] But in vain they do worship me, TEACHING FOR DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN.

ISAIAH 29 [13] Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but HAVE REMOVED THEIR HEART FAR FROM ME, AND THEIR FEAR TOWARD ME IS TAUGHT BY THE PRECEPT OF MEN:

So who are these people who say they believe in the Lord and honor the Lord with their words but because they “fear not” the Lord, they keep not His commandments but keep the commandments of man? Who are these people who worship the Lord in vain?

LUKE 12 [4] And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. [5] But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, FEAR HIM.

DEUT. 6 [1] Now THESE ARE THE COMMANDMENTS, the statutes, and the judgments, which the Lord your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it: [2] THAT THOU MIGHTEST FEAR THE LORD THY GOD, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.

PSALM 111 [10] The FEAR OF THE LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding HAVE ALL THEY THAT DO HIS COMMANDMENTS: his praise endureth for ever.

PROVERBS 1 [7] THE FEAR OF THE LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. [8] My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and FORSAKE NOT THE LAW of thy mother:[9] For they shall be an ornament of GRACE unto thy head, and chains about thy neck.

Heres a great scripture. Forsake not the law. Fear the Lord, get wisdom and receive His grace.

ISAIAH 51 [5] My righteousness is near; MY SALVATION IS GONE FORTH, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust. [6] Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but MY SALVATION SHALL BE FOR EVER, and my righteousness shall not be abolished. [7] Hearken unto me, YE THAT KNOW RIGHTEOUSNESS, THE PEOPLE IN WHOSE HEART IS MY LAW; FEAR YE NOT THE REPROACH OF MEN, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.

Salvation? Being saved. The law. The 10 commandments. Hmmm… Jesus is the same today, yesterday, and forever.

 

[Chowmah]

Doc, ya want to go to the city that will last forever

JER.17 [21] Thus saith the LORD; Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the sabbath day, nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem;[22] Neither carry forth a burden out of your houses on the sabbath day, neither do ye any work, but HALLOW YE THE SABBATH DAY, as I commanded your fathers.[23] BUT THEY OBEYED NOT, neither inclined their ear, but made their neck stiff, that they might not hear, nor receive instruction.[24] And it shall come to pass, if ye diligently hearken unto me, saith the LORD, to bring in no burden through the gates of this city on the sabbath day, but HALLOW THE SABBATH DAY, to do no work therein;[25] Then shall there enter into the gates of this city kings and princes sitting upon the throne of David, riding in chariots and on horses, they, and their princes, the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem: and THIS CITY SHALL REMAIN FOR EVER.

Just follow the directions

REV.22 [14] Blessed are they that DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may ENTER IN THROUGH THE GATES INTO THE CITY.

 

[Chowmah]

Well...as for me, im getting back to the curse of Gal.1

Daniel 9:10-11
Neither have we obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets. [11] Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

 

[Dr. Walter]

When ya wanna get back to Gal.1 let me know Doc

PSALM 94 [11] The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity.12] Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O LORD, and teachest him out of thy law;[13] That thou mayest give him rest from the days of adversity, until the pit be digged for the wicked.

Teach man out of thy law, until pit digged for the wicked. The bottomless pit?

PSALM 119 [84] How many are the days of thy servant? when wilt thou execute judgment on them that persecute me? [85] The proud have digged pits for me, which are not after thy law.[86] All thy commandments are faithful: they persecute me wrongfully; help thou me.

They who are not after the law have dug pits and ALL thy commandments are faithful...the 4th?

PROVERBS 28 [9] He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.[10] Whoso causeth the righteous to go astray in an evil way, he shall fall himself into his own pit: but the upright shall have good things in possession.

Those who turn from hearing the law will fall into pit they themselves dug.

PSALM 7 [15] He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made.

ISAIAH 24 [3] The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.[4] The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.[5] The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; BECAUSE THEY HAVE TRANSGRESSED THE LAWS, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.[6] Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.[17] Fear, and THE PIT, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.[18] And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall FALL INTO THE PIT; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.[22] And they shall be gathered together, AS PRISONERS ARE GATHERED IN THE PIT, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

Well, heres the end of the story. The DAY OF THE LORD. Those that practice transgressing the law of God will end up in the pit and scripture says in Revelation that those that keep the commandments of God (Exodus 20) and have the testimony of Jesus will end up in the Kingdom. Those in the pit will be visited after many days. A thousand years maybe?

REV.20 [1] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of THE BOTTOMLESS PIT and a great chain in his hand.[2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

YUP. A thousand years. Looks like those that do not observe to keep Gods 10 commandments will be having some company in the pit. Kinda makes Saddams wormhole look rather appealing.

Your right! Every human being that fails to "keep" the law of God as God defines "keeping" it will end up in hell. All men have already failed to "keep" the law of God in their own life and never will be able to "keep" the law as God defines "keeping" the law.

Therefore, the only escape is for those who "keep" the law as God defines "keeping" the law is through faith in a Substitute who acted in their behalf and whose righteousness is imputed to them by faith. These are not only righteous by judicial POSITION but they are righteous by NEW BIRTH as God has created in them a "new man" created in true holiness and righteousness (Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10). Hence, they are "righteous" by judicial POSITION and they are "righteous" by new born CONDITION.

Although their own personal life is a MIXTURE of sin and righteousness (1 Jn. 1:8-10) that hardly qualifies for justification under the Law, their own life is no longer the basis for justification under the law as that has been satisfied by the personal works and life of Jesus Christ. Hence, their own life serves a completely different purpose in God's plan of salvation. God cannot even consider the personal life of a born again justified by faith believer as the basis for justification under the law because that would require God rejecting Jesus Christ as the basis for justification under law in behalf of all who received his satisfaction through faith.

What purpose then, does the personal life of a justified born again believer serve the believer and God? It serves as the basis for present growth, blessing, usefulness, and future rewards in heaven. It serves as the basis for either the salvation or loss of your daily life for the glory of God. Hence, since your daily life is a mixture of sin and righteousness, what aspect of that daily life is sin is lost for the glory of God, lost for present blessing and lost for eternal rewards. What apsect of your daily life is righteous is saved for God's glory and is the basis for eternal reward. Hence, the daily life is a BATTLE ZONE and Christian growth is measured by consistency of living more righteous than unrighteous in your daily life. However, this consistency never reaches perfection (Philip. 3:11-13).

However, remember, the lost man can do NO RIGHTEOUSNESS at all in God's sight. What they do always fails God's standard of righteousness. They have no judicial substitute to obtain a POSITION of righteousness. They have no new birth to obtain a CONDITION of righteousness in the new man. They have no internal source of righteousness to be manifested in their daily life through the power of the Indwelling Spirit of God and therefore they are WHOLLY WITHOUT RIGHTEOUSNESS before God.

In direct contrast, the weakest Christian (e.g. Lot) is righteous by POSITION due to Christ alone and is righteous by CONDITION according to the new man and is rightoues by some amount of manifestation of righteousness in their life that originates from the righteous inward new man and empowered by the Holy Spirit.

This is the Biblical distinction between the "righteous" and the "unrighteous" in the resurrection.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Well...as for me, im getting back to the curse of Gal.1

Daniel 9:10-11
Neither have we obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets. [11] Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

If you are attempting to escape the curse by your own obedience to God's law you have already failed! If you are attempting to be justified by God's law by your own personal obedience you have failed, you are failing and you will utlimately completely fail. You are already cursed and everything you do is cursed.

Only Christ's life and death satisfies the law's demands now and then. You can only receive justification under the law through faith in his obedience not yours and you can only escape the ultimate condemnation of the law - death - through his death not yours.

If you have trusted in Christ to be justified then why are you attempting by your own obedience to be justified??????? You are rejecting Jesus Christ by that very attempt - this is the essence of the book of Galations.

As a justified child of God your own obedience no longer serves for that purpose as Christ's obedience served for that purpose. What does your life then serve for? Whatever aspect of your life originates from your self and your own ability and power is LOST for the cause of Christ (Rom. 7:14-25) for time and eternity. However, whatever aspect of your life is the manifestation of the new inward man (Rom. 7:22) and empowered by the Holy Spirit (Rom. 8:1-26) is made to count for God's glory here and now and for rewards in the life to come. To walk after the flesh is to experience here and now death - separation from God in your daily life. To walk after the Spirit is to experience here and now the life of Christ in your daily life.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Doc, ya want to go to the city that will last forever

JER.17 [21] Thus saith the LORD; Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the sabbath day, nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem;[22] Neither carry forth a burden out of your houses on the sabbath day, neither do ye any work, but HALLOW YE THE SABBATH DAY, as I commanded your fathers.[23] BUT THEY OBEYED NOT, neither inclined their ear, but made their neck stiff, that they might not hear, nor receive instruction.[24] And it shall come to pass, if ye diligently hearken unto me, saith the LORD, to bring in no burden through the gates of this city on the sabbath day, but HALLOW THE SABBATH DAY, to do no work therein;[25] Then shall there enter into the gates of this city kings and princes sitting upon the throne of David, riding in chariots and on horses, they, and their princes, the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem: and THIS CITY SHALL REMAIN FOR EVER.

If you are a Jew and/or under the Old Covenant then this is for you. However, violation of the Sabbath Law is but one law and yet this one law demands sinless perfection in all of your life. If you want to go this route then FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS and here they are - "Be ye therefore PERFECT even as your Father in heaven is PERFECT" - good luck!!

REV.22 [14] Blessed are they that DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may ENTER IN THROUGH THE GATES INTO THE CITY.

Do you know that most of the "saved" do not live in the city and do not have the right to the tree of life which is in the city and yet they are still called "the saved"?????

In Revelation 21:24 there are "nations" of "THE SAVED" who live on the earth and do not live in the city but merely walk "in the light of" the city. Outside the city is more than the lake of fire. There is a whole new earth outside the city and their are inhabitants that live on this new earth who are "saved" but who do not live inside the city. There are those who are "saved" who do live inside the city (Rev. 22:1).

In Revelation 22:2 these nations who are "SAVED" do not have access to the tree of life and are not permitted to eat of its fruit but rather their part is the "leaves." Do you know why their part is the "leaves" and not the "fruit"????

 

[billwald]

Am I afraid of God? No.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Am I afraid of God? No.

Rom. 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

One of the characterics of a lost man