Total Inability

Australian Student,

I read your post with interest and liked not only what you said, and noticed that you apparently are immersed in the study of the Word. If you stay in the Word you will not go too far astray theologically.

I liked how you picked out the fact that even an evil parent can give 'good gifts.' Sinners do have an intellect that is not lost even though we are all the sons and daughter of the Fall. Sinner point out when a Christian does not act like he is one.

I believe sinners are depraved by the 'image of God' has not been totally defaced. They have intellect, conscience and an unfettered will if they respond to the convicting and convincing ministry of the Spirit. Yes, sinners are bound in sins but the prayer of faith brakes that awful bondage.

I read Acts ten and thought that I read that Cornelius was ' . . . a devout man and one who feared God' from all that we ever heard about him. And as you said, God heard his prayers also as noted in Acts chapter 10.

I have always been under the impression that God only hears the prayer of repentance and/or faith. [John 9:31] 'Now we know that God heareth not sinners; but if any man be a worshiper of God, and doeth His will, him He heareth.'

If I may suggest something. Forget Calvins views as well as Arminius and think the thoughts of God by studying your Bible.

A brother in Christ.

Ray

 

Very interesting.

 

God did not create any man for the sole purpose of stoking the fires of hell. Men are not privy to the will and intent of an eternal God. All that we have is his word, and thank God that they reveal his nature which is immutable.

Shall we say that the God that we know has the capacity to create beings for the sole purpose of torturing them. Let's say that we today call ourselves the elect of God. If God has demonstrated a propensity for such actions, who's to say that God will never, never; throughout the pages of eternity future decide to burn a few of his elect.

It is against the nature of God to do such a thing. Trust me, those that glory in such an act, do so only believing that they themselves have escaped the judgement of God. Their comfort and ability to glorify God rests solely on that most fatal of human thought, bad things always happen to the other guy....

Matt 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Just as the Jews that depended on their Abrahamic ancestery for salvation found out differently, many that think that they are the elect of God will find themselves in the same quandry.

You have an insightful and healthy understanding of scripture. Your thoughts Glorify God. Any attempt to glorify God that is not founded in love is not appropriate to God... GOD IS LOVE..

[ November 06, 2002, 09:53 PM: Message edited by: Chappie ]

 

Amen, Chappie. You agree with Calvinism on that point.

Ken
A Spurgeonite

 

Amen, Chappie. You agree with Calvinism on that point.

Ken
A Spurgeonite </font>[/QUOTE]El gusto es mio.
muchas gracias mi' amigo
ah sus ordines...

 

If I understand your question, the answer is only once, and I was forced to do it by circus midgets.

Now I have some questions for you:
Qui a coupe le fromage?
Ix-nay on the oreign-fay anguages-lay?

Hasty banana.

 

If I understand your question, the answer is only once, and I was forced to do it by circus midgets.

Now I have some questions for you:
Qui a coupe le fromage?
Ix-nay on the oreign-fay anguages-lay?

Hasty banana.</font>[/QUOTE] Ok, Ok, I'll knock off the foolishness..

 

That is almost it. My statement is that mankind "apart from God's drawing" is "unnable" to comply - unnable to choose.

BUT GOD never claims to have "LEFT MAN APART From His Drawing".

We live IN The context of BOTH the sinful nature AND the ever-present DRAWING of God - who DRAWS all mankind to himself - Who CONVICTS the WORLD of Sin and Righteousness and Judgment.

Although you say you have never found this in scripture I would recommend John chapter 12 and chapter 16 for a start.

Again - your error is in trying to dice god-out.

IT is not possible. SINCE God was enabling your free will - as you CHOSE sin and were by that CHOICE enslaved to sin, EVEN SO God's enabling your free will ALSO allows you to CHOOSE life and the New Birth then ENAbLES obedience "CREATED for God Works that God determined we should walk IN them".

But in that ENABLING - there is Constant CHOICE such that "I BUFFET My body and MAKE it my slave LEST after preaching the Gospel to OTHERS I MYSELF should be DISQUALFIED" 1Cor 9 - end of chapter.

You must be thinking of Matt 18's scenario of "Forgiveness Revoked" or are you seeing it in Ezekiel 18, or is it Hebrews 6 or is it Galations 5 and "Falling from Grace" or are you simply refering to the "Lest I should be disqualfied" statement in 1 Cor 9 above.

I am not sure which you are referencing - but if you are supposing that the Arminian POV requires arguing against those positions - you are missing the Arminian point. Nothing about the Arminian view requires digressing from the full and apparent statements of those scriptures. Free will even IN Salvation.

In fact that Free Will view of the Arminian POV - sorta requires acceptance of those texts without reservation.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Not willing for ANY to perish but for ALL to come to Repentance (2Peter 3)

 

God did not create man to end up in hell. God does want to save those whom He gave to His Son, Jesus Christ, before the foundation of the world. Anyone who ends up being damned will be in hell because of his sin and then his failure to repent and believe the gospel.

Ken
A Spurgeonite

 

If God ordained the elect for Heaven, He was no less involved in sending the rest to Hell. By saying that sinners go to Hell because of their sins is a cop out. The Calvinist real honest answer is not found in the sentence before this one. Their honest answer is in the first sentence. Like I said before, no born in the 'image of God' human would believe the first sentence but might be lured into accepting the second one.

 

Ray,

I'm not totally sure, but I think I disagree with you as I think you are saying if one believes in the Biblical doctrine of election, then he must be a double predestinationist. But I'm not sure that is what you said.

However, ultimately God is the One who places all people in heaven or hell based on the parameters He has established.

Ken
A Spurgeonite

 

Ken Hamilton,

I agree with your most recent post. It sure feels good to be agreeing with you.

A brother,

Ray

 

That's good, Ray. I am in an agreeable mood today - the Arkansas Razorbacks won and I am going to eat pizza in a little while and I am taking one of my dogs to agility practice tomorrow about 80 miles from here.

May God's blessings be on His people.

Ken
A Spurgeonite