Transgressing the Law

[steaver]

Here are some questions for DHK, Ed, and others of like beliefs. Can sins be ‘paid for in full’ apart from the blood being sprinkled on them? Once the blood is applied can it be withdrawn? Was a literal payment made for the sins of the entire world? Was the blood applied to the sins of the entire world? If not, how could have they been paid for apart from the blood? If you agree that the blood was indeed applied to every sin on behalf of the ‘sins of the entire world,’ and that the debt of all sin was indeed ‘paid in full,’ explain to the listener why one cannot logically conclude that either universalism reigns or God must withdraw the forgiveness He says the blood paid for in it application to the sins of the entire world, on the account of those that in the end will be lost and held accountable for their sins once paid for?

Jesus Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the entire world. This is past sins, present sins and future sins. It is ALL sins.

To have this propitiation applied to one's account, one must believe in Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ and His sacrificial work is the only way any person can be forgiven/pardoned. This makes Jesus Christ the propitiation for the whole world , just as scripture declares. One must come to Jesus Christ by faith to have the sacrifice accepted by God on their behalf.

The sacrifice is availiable for the entire world. One must believe for the sacrifice to take away their sin.

 

[steaver]

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

The sins of the whole world means just that: every single sin, of every age, of every sin, has been atoned for. Jesus Christ has paid the penalty of every sin that was ever committed--from Adam and all the generations up until He comes again.
That means all of my sins: past, present, and future have been forgiven, doesn't it?

Amen!

This is not universalism. Our salvation, forgiveness of sin, the gift of eternal life, is all predicated on accepting Christ by faith and faith alone. Salvation is efficacious only to them that believe.

Amen!

:godisgood:

 

[Brother Bob]

The literal payment of sins is literal because it is all based on the eternal security of the believer.

Your problem is that the blood was an atonement for sin of all men, presented to the Father. It is not applied to your soul, until you believe. You sins were paid for, but you never received the reward of them being paid for until you believed, which the Father has the blood and adds to the church daily such as should be saved. Now that blood covers all of the sins you ever committed. If you commit a sin unto death after that, you put God to an open shame and are hell bound. I do not believe a saved person can commit such a sin, but the bible is plain, if they do commit it, the doors of hell will swing open wide.

The Old Brethren in the 1st Century had it pretty close, there is a remissible sin, which God Chastises his children for, there is a irremissible sin, such as adultery and if a believer commits such a sin, they put God to an open shame. I don't know who changed the doctrine over the years, but it sure has been changed.

Some say my theology has some holes in it, but its not mine, its those who say God won't remember a sin and then does remember it. I say they don't commit it to start with, because of the indwelling of the Holy Ghost and your body is the temple of God and he that defiles the temple will God destroy.

BBob,

 

[steaver]

Your problem is that the blood was an atonement for sin of all men, presented to the Father. It is not applied to your soul, until you believe. You sins were paid for, but you never received the reward of them being paid for until you believed, which the Father has the blood and adds to the church daily such as should be saved. Now that blood covers all of the sins you ever committed.

Problem? Has not DHK declared the same as you say here?

 

[steaver]

Some say my theology has some holes in it, but its not mine, its those who say God won't remember a sin and then does remember it. I say they don't commit it to start with, because of the indwelling of the Holy Ghost and your body is the temple of God and he that defiles the temple will God destroy.

BBob,

Well you can say it all day long but most Christians know better. I committed adultery as a believer and God hasn't destroyed me nor will He for I belong to Christ. My sins are paid in full!

:jesus:

 

[Brother Bob]

Well you can say it all day long but most Christians know better. I committed adultery as a believer and God hasn't destroyed me nor will He for I belong to Christ. My sins are paid in full!

:jesus:

Well the debate is were you really a believer when you committed adultery. Anyway I quoted scripture your argument is with the word of God, not me.

BBob,

 

[steaver]

Well the debate is were you really a believer when you committed adultery. Anyway I quoted scripture your argument is with the word of God, not me.

BBob,

No debate at all. Yes, I was a believer. From age ten.

 

[DHK]

Well the debate is were you really a believer when you committed adultery. Anyway I quoted scripture your argument is with the word of God, not me.

BBob,

Bob, questioning the salvation of another believer is against the BB rules.

Just because his testimony runs contrary to your theology gives you no right to infer that he is unsaved. That is disgusting.

It reminds me of the COC person that posted here, and when he heard that I was not baptized until two years after I trusted Christ as my Savior he declared that I was not saved. That is absurd, don't you think? Because my testimony didn't line up with his denominational belief he called me unsaved.
Because Steaver's testimony doesn't line up with your denominational belief you call him unsaved.
Ye do err not knowing the Scriptures...

 

[steaver]

I personally know many believers who have gotten themselves caught up in "grievious" sins. They are paying the consequences or have paid. Just as I had to pay for my own. But praise God the penalty of eternal death is not applied!

I would guess that you do not know of any of these Christians because you refuse to believe they exist.


:godisgood:

 

[Brother Bob]

I personally know many believers who have gotten themselves caught up in "grievious" sins. They are paying the consequences or have paid. Just as I had to pay for my own. But praise God the penalty of eternal death is not applied!

I would guess that you do not know of any of these Christians because you refuse to believe they exist.


:godisgood:

Right!, I believe in a strong God and keeper.

How come He remembered your sin, is what I do not understand according to your theology. Also the theology of DHK.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob, questioning the salvation of another believer is against the BB rules.

Just because his testimony runs contrary to your theology gives you no right to infer that he is unsaved. That is disgusting.

It reminds me of the COC person that posted here, and when he heard that I was not baptized until two years after I trusted Christ as my Savior he declared that I was not saved. That is absurd, don't you think? Because my testimony didn't line up with his denominational belief he called me unsaved.
Because Steaver's testimony doesn't line up with your denominational belief you call him unsaved.
Ye do err not knowing the Scriptures...

Are you blind or what, I never questioned his salvation. I question If he may of been saved later rather than earlier. Quit accusing me of something I did not do.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Jesus Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the entire world. This is past sins, present sins and future sins. It is ALL sins.

To have this propitiation applied to one's account, one must believe in Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ and His sacrificial work is the only way any person can be forgiven/pardoned. This makes Jesus Christ the propitiation for the whole world , just as scripture declares. One must come to Jesus Christ by faith to have the sacrifice accepted by God on their behalf.

The sacrifice is availiable for the entire world. One must believe for the sacrifice to take away their sin.

Now you got it. Instead of a universal salvation.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

Right!, I believe in a strong God and keeper.

BBob,

But you do know Steaver from this board.
He has given the testimony that you need.
With that evidence you must make one of two decisions:
1. Either you are calling Steaver a liar--his testimony is false.
2. Or you are saying that he is not saved.

Both of these are against the BB rules, and are serious violations.

Barring that, you need to change your theology. There is no other option.

 

[Brother Bob]

No debate at all. Yes, I was a believer. From age ten.

I am not questioning you, you believe as you wish. There has been many on BB, that said they too were baptized early in life as a child, and knew not what they were doing and had to be baptized again later. Again, not you. You can speak for yourself.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

Are you blind or what, I never questioned his salvation. I question If he may of been saved later rather than earlier. Quit accusing me of something I did not do.

BBob,

But that is not what Steaver said.
In other words you are saying that Steaver lied about his own testimony.

 

[Brother Bob]

But you do know Steaver from this board.
He has given the testimony that you need.
With that evidence you must make one of two decisions:
1. Either you are calling Steaver a liar--his testimony is false.
2. Or you are saying that he is not saved.

Both of these are against the BB rules, and are serious violations.

Barring that, you need to change your theology. There is no other option.

You are putting words in my mouth, I did not call Steaver unsaved, I did not call Steaver a liar.

If you want to make up false accusations, I can't help that.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

You are putting words in my mouth, I did not call Steaver unsaved, I did not call Steaver a liar.

If you want to make up false accusations, I can't help that.

BBob,

Steaver said that he was saved at the age of ten.
You seem to be adamant in believing that he was not saved at the age of ten.
Thus you are calling his testimony into question; saying it is false; saying that he is lying about it.
That, my friend, is despicable.

 

[Brother Bob]

Steaver said that he was saved at the age of ten.
You seem to be adamant in believing that he was not saved at the age of ten.
Thus you are calling his testimony into question; saying it is false; saying that he is lying about it.
That, my friend, is despicable.

That is false, I said that is something we could "debate" which is a far cry from what you so freely accuse me of.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

That is false, I said that is something we could "debate" which is a far cry from what you so freely accuse me of.

BBob,

It is not false Bob.[/quote]

Originally Posted by steaver
Well you can say it all day long but most Christians know better. I committed adultery as a believer and God hasn't destroyed me nor will He for I belong to Christ. My sins are paid in full!

Well the debate is were you really a believer when you committed adultery. Anyway I quoted scripture your argument is with the word of God, not me.
BBob

Your statement was not one of belief; but rather of doubt and unbelief. You did not believe Steaver's testimony of salvation. Your statement regarding it is quite evident in that respect.

 

[Brother Bob]

It is not false Bob.

Your statement was not one of belief; but rather of doubt and unbelief. You did not believe Steaver's testimony of salvation. Your statement regarding it is quite evident in that respect.

My statement is about what this and other threads have been about, the very core of them, and that is whether we can as believers commit sin unto death. As you know,, I do not believe you can. Steaver on the other hand along with you, believe you can commit any sin. I deny that, which is my belief.
That is what we are debating, and that is all I said to Steaver. You Sir, came along and made something different about it.

I would like to know, if calling another on here "a liar" is breaking the rules of BB, why do you break that rule all the time, with me and others. You should set and example, not be as the Pharasees and say, do as I say, and not as I do.

Not to my knowledge, the same is true with lusting, not to my knowledge.A clear contradiction between two statements is a lie. One must be false and the other true. If I can pull up a statement that says you have never sinned, and if I can pull up a statement that says you have sinned, then you have lied. I believe that is possible on these threads. Don't you?
__________________
DHK

BBob,