Trump Asks Christians to Pray for Him, Not All Leaders

[Zaac]

You’ve been riding on and getting away with this false dilemma fallacy around here far too long. You’re not voting for Jesus, or against Him, you are voting between the 2 humans He has put before you.

Oh gosh. Save the whole psych 101 babble for someone who is off-put or impressed by it. Then why don't you vote for the one who supports abortion and gay marriage? Do tell how you have come to not acknowledge Christ in all you do when He commands that you do so?

This vote has nothing to do with making disciples, your argument does absolutely nothing to prove that Christians don’t care about that commission, the two are not even related.

Sure it does unless you're utilizing a secular worldview instead of a Christ-following worldview. It's obvious the one YOU are using.

Trump is not running for Pastor in Chief.

I was wondering when someone would throw that most foolish retort out again. SO let me respond as I have before. If Trump isn't running for Pastor in Chief(just another way for you and others to try and take Christ out of the equation so that you don't have to acknowledge your opposition to HIS Way), then shut your mouths when it comes to anything moral or immoral. Don't say anything about abortion. Don't say anything about a candidate supporting gay marriage. None of it. Keep your mouth closed as morality based on Christ is not what you're looking for.

Your argument has absolutely no validity whatsoever toward proving your conclusion that to vote between the 2 human choices is going against Christ.

Sure it does except to the ones who want to remove Christ from the equation so that they don't have to acknowledge their opposition to HIS Way. That would be YOU.

Trump has expressed more support for Christian Religious Freedom than any candidate I’ve ever seen, and YET you question beg that voting for him is going against Christ. You still haven’t supported your false dilemma argument on even one point and merely offer another fallacy while question begging your conclusion that it is against Christ.

Big deal. This is one of the weakest excuses I think that I have ever heard for supporting someone who rejects Christ.What on earth does Christian religious freedom have to do with supporting Christ? This guy throws you a bone and suddenly he's your guy? Who is your Christian religious freedom for, you or Christ?

This type thinking brings to mind the Scripture about God wanting our Obedience over our little perceived sacrifices.

What good is your "Christian religious freedom" if every opportunity you get you're giving a testimony for that which is against Christ? Pure foolishness personified.

Another example of your stereotypical question begging, to begin with you don’t know that Christ doesn’t want you to His work through Trump.

Another example of your trying to impress with your psychobabble. There's a principle in Scripture that you may want to review. It says
If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. Mark 3:25

I might do His work underneath a Trump Presidency if HE so chooses, but I certainly won't do it "through Trump".

I think it more likely you reject His way of placing Christians in the world to make a difference through making the best of these choices as you preach to them they should bury their vote, thereby removing any Christian influence in the choice of leadership of your nation whatsoever. – if you had your way.

You've already shown that you haven't included Christ in YOUR thinking, so at the end of the day, why should ANY Christian care what you think? Your reasoning is about YOU and getting someone in the White House who best suits YOU and what YOU want.

My goodness. For some reason I thought that you were more mature in Christ than this. But you display a reasoning that says Christ is not to be involved in "your " politics because YOU have a better understanding for what YOU and YOUR country need.

And perhaps, the reason is because too many Christians believe they should bury their head, and vote, in the sand. - as you encourage.

What you're burying your head in the sand to is the same thing that Christians buried their heads in the sand to during slavery and Jim Crow: God has ALREADY spoken to how we should respond You just don't like that way and want to do it YOUR way.

Four years ago I’m pretty sure you were busy trying to convince Christians to bury their vote based on the same mislead principles which took the Christian influence out of the decision whether or not the candidate was Christian. Perhaps that is your true goal, I don’t know, for sure. I do seriously doubt any Christian candidate, regardless if he stood up for Christian values and put them at the forefront, would ever meet your approval.

Pish posh. You talk just like a worker of iniquity trying to sound like you're for a Christian influence when your every word salivates against the Christ you seem to think YOUR way supports. It is beyond pure foolish to think that supporting that which is against Christ is "Bizarro world" now an influence for Christ.

I consider it a self-serving lie based on spin that Trump rejects Christ.

You consider it what you want. You seem to consider what you want a whole lot more than you want to consider Christ in YOUR politics. And to be clear Trump, the man you keep trying to push, has made it clear that he's never asked God for forgiveness of his "actions".

Now you try and massage and finagle that all you want. But wait and see who it really looks like is trying to sell a self -serving lie about Trump rejecting or not rejecting Christ.

Even if he personally struggles with theological issues his values of supporting Christian liberty and being anti-abortion far outweigh his opponent values and give a Christian reason to choose.

dude save it. You don't want Christ in your politics. But keep going to this morality well of being anti-abortion when you're not trying to elect a Pastor-in-chief.

You and others love saying things like, “I seriously doubt my Savior is going to be angry with me for not voting for a lying, greedy, angry, hateful, adulterous, covetous man like Donald Trump.”

You still trying to set yourself up to justify support for Trump.

While failing to consider that Jesus might tell you that you also are a “lying, greedy, angry, hateful, adulterous, covetous man” that refused to do His work through those He put in front of you while making the excuse that he was too full of sin and you feared your Master was too strict for you to use your God given attributes so you buried (wasted) your choice/vote saying it was in His name that you did so.

Nope. God is not a God of confusion. He may ultimately choose to do those things through having a Pharaoh-type in office. But He certainly isn't going to call His people to go against what He has commanded to do so. That would be beyond stupid and something God DOES NOT do.

And again you base this on your false dilemma fallacy, purely same old unsubstantiated claim that voting for between 2 humans is a vote for sin and therefore not for Christ.

And again you come back with the psych 101 babble. You don't want Christ in your politics but want to complain about the moral condition of the Democrat candidate as reason for you supporting Trump.

 

[Don]

No I didn't. I addressed it, I'm afraid it is you that missed my point that such reasoning presents a false dilemma upon yourselves:

Ben: "My point is there is more to consider than suggesting one is a vote for Jesus and the other sin."

Such as: "Apparently some here think they are voting for Jesus rather than between 2 humans."

I'm reminded of when the people wanted a king, and were told they already had God; but they insisted they must have a king, so God gave them Saul. And we all know how that turned out....

And: "Ever consider that perhaps Jesus will think of your vote as wimpy? After all, He placed us on this earth and blessed us with sense, reason and intellect and has placed a choice before us to use it, but yet you want to hold on to your choice/vote for Him. ...This reminds of the thinking of the servant's strategy who was blessed with 10 pounds and upon the master's return it was discovered that he/you had gained ABSOLUTELY nothing, in fact, merely hid the money/didn't use your vote or use your God given attributes to make a rationally reasoned choice while instead claiming he/you feared your Master was too strict as an excuse for your inaction."

The presumption that our God-given attributes to make a rationally reasoned choice means we must automatically assume Trump is the best choice is a logical fallacy. This is only true if Trump is the best choice. That hasn't actually been proven

Remember: the Germans thought Hitler was their best choice at one time....

And: I've previously addressed the rationale of "Moral Consequentialism" - if the conscience is not logically supported by a decision that has no positive effect and more likely a negative at best then the claim to go against your conscience is false. So saying I'm suggesting to go your conscience is not true since I've argued you haven't supported your conscience logically...

This conclusion only works if you consider that there are only two positive or negative outcomes (i.e., Trump = positive and Clinton = negative). If the outcome of voting for either candidate is negative, then your premise is false.

Thus, if the decision has no positive effect, and can only result in a negative, it only stands to reason to make the best choice possible, whether that be voting for either "best chance of winning candidate," voting 3rd party, or not voting. All three of those options are perfectly valid if one believes that the only possible outcome of the choices available will be negative.

Thus, voting your conscience is justifed, for the person who believes that there can only be a negative outcome.