Well you have tied yourself to the name "John Wimber". If you are not charismatic at all then you might fit in well. Baptist churches do not hold to speaking in tongues, faith healers, believe in faith and God will give you anything you want etc.
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Trying to find a church home
- Thread starter ntchristian
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Well you have tied yourself to the name "John Wimber". If you are not charismatic at all then you might fit in well. Baptist churches do not hold to speaking in tongues, faith healers, believe in faith and God will give you anything you want etc.
Particular
Well-Known Member
@atpollard might shed some thoughts on your question. I believe he may be a Reformed Baptist who is not a cessationist.
Hollow Man
Active Member
Actually, that's precisely what a heretic is.
Sounds like you need to invest in a dictionary as well as a Bible.
ntchristian
Active Member
Would you please go back and read my post where I first mentioned Wimber to see what I believe about baptism of the Holy Spirit and gifts.
ntchristian
Active Member
No, it is not. Your statement is false.
ntchristian
Active Member
Thanks. I hope he will.
Hollow Man
Active Member
Yea I read it, tongues under any condition will not fly in the average Baptist church. None of the sign gifts will. You used the name John Wimber. I suggest you go back and study what he himself believed and practiced.
ntchristian
Active Member
According to your definition, anyone who disagrees with you is a heretic.
The definition you have just posted is saying that any opinion other than the commonly accepted one is heretical. That is not quite correct but certainly closer to the original meaning of heretic as it was first used. It in no way means simply doctrinal disagreement, as you first claimed.
ntchristian
Active Member
I have studied John Wimber's beliefs. He was not a classic pentecostal. Are you saying tongues and other gifts would be forbidden?
Hollow Man
Active Member
The bottom line is that Rev Mitchell is right. You would most likely not be accepted into a Baptist church, not necessarily because you believe in the gibberish of tongues, but because you don't appear to know the difference between sound and false doctrines.
And now, if you'll excuse me, it's time for me to follow Proverbs 26:4 and put you on ignore where you belong.
ntchristian
Active Member
Maybe I should look at the few independent Charismatic churches around here. Although I don't agree with their view of Holy Spirit baptism or tongues. At least they allow for all the spiritual gifts to be used. I don't have the tongues gift myself, and I haven't had a second experience of Holy Spirit baptism. So I don't see how I would fit in there, either.
As I understand it, most Baptists would believe in eternal security. I myself lean more to the free will side of things. That's an Orthodox holdover, I suppose, as is baptism by immersion, although I no longer believe in infant baptism.
I appreciate most of the responses I've received so far. These are helping me sort things out.
As I understand it, most Baptists would believe in eternal security. I myself lean more to the free will side of things. That's an Orthodox holdover, I suppose, as is baptism by immersion, although I no longer believe in infant baptism.
I appreciate most of the responses I've received so far. These are helping me sort things out.
Sign gifts like tongues typically are.
Particular
Well-Known Member
I am not a cessationist either. I believe God has all his gifts at his disposal to reach the world with the gospel. I believe tongues is a known language, as shown in Acts, not a babbling that is then claimed to be angelic language. That claim is selfish and not valuable to the church. But, God has shown he uses tongues in reaching the unreached at very specific times.
Cessationist's will claim 1 Corinthians 13 as their reason for "sign gifts" ceasing. They state that the perfect is the fulfillment of the Canon of scripture. I believe the perfect is the return of Christ at the day of the Lord.
You can find Baptist Churches who embrace all the gifts. They are rare, but you can find them. Often they will be Reformed Baptist, but you may also find them in Missionary Baptist churches.
1 Corinthians 13:7-12 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
ntchristian
Active Member
I think I believe pretty much like you. I especially agree with you on tongues. Thanks for the information. You have given me hope that I might attend a Baptist church. I need to have fellowship somewhere, and I don't have to be in a place where I'm in total agreement with everything. Just looking for a church patterned after the New Testament as much as possible.
Which is the perfect definition from Martin Luther onward. Good job, you have inadvertently proved who the real heretics are.
None of the churches in the Apostolic New Testament era were "Free and Independent" entities with the faithful allowed to decide the things in the Scriptures for themselves. Nope, they looked to the established church authority for guidance, you know like when St. Paul wrote to the outlying churches to tell them where they were in error and that they had better mend their ways?
While not to intrude on your Internet anonymity, if you could tell us what general area you're in, it might help with recommendations.
I 'm sure the Holy Spirit manifests Himself & does miracles, even "tongues", as HE chooses, not when men choose. He uses "tongues" & their interpretation very-little, but He does healings, etc. every day.
And He doesn't always do "instant miracles". For instance, He kept my wife alive after a schoolbus accident in late 2000 that would ordinarily killed her, as half the bones in her body were broken, both lungs were punctured, liver lacerated, some intestines crushed. But she healed SLOWLY, being kept unconscious in ICU for a month & a half. But she recovered enough to go back to work the following year, with some disabilities, of course, and as part of the miracle, her mind remained completely unaffected, with no memory loss, behavioral changes, etc.
I don't think too many people find a "perfect" church, so my best answer is to SINCERELY PRAY about it, & attend at least one service in all churches you believe might share at least most of your beliefs. I believe GOD will let you know if He wants you in a certain church when you attend a service in it.
And He doesn't always do "instant miracles". For instance, He kept my wife alive after a schoolbus accident in late 2000 that would ordinarily killed her, as half the bones in her body were broken, both lungs were punctured, liver lacerated, some intestines crushed. But she healed SLOWLY, being kept unconscious in ICU for a month & a half. But she recovered enough to go back to work the following year, with some disabilities, of course, and as part of the miracle, her mind remained completely unaffected, with no memory loss, behavioral changes, etc.
I don't think too many people find a "perfect" church, so my best answer is to SINCERELY PRAY about it, & attend at least one service in all churches you believe might share at least most of your beliefs. I believe GOD will let you know if He wants you in a certain church when you attend a service in it.
Particular
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately the Roman Church became a puppet of the Roman Empire when it became a State Church. No longer did it follow the scriptures as written by God through the Apostles, but it wrote its own godless opinions into code and demanded all citizens of the State obey its godless codes. Indulgences is a great example of godless codes foisted on the masses by an apostate church in Rome.
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