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Trying to find a church home

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ntchristian

Active Member
I was born, baptized, and raised in the Eastern Orthodox faith. However, within the past year, I have become convinced of believers'-only baptism. I have also come to disbelieve apostolic succession and now hold that the local church is an independent body whose officers should be pastor and deacon, as in the churches of the New Testament.

Also, I have moved from the part of my state where there were several Orthodox churches, to a very rural place where there are none. So, even if I could remain Orthodox, I would have no place to go to church. There are a few Roman Catholic churches in this part of the state, but the Roman Catholic Church is not an option for me.

I feel I am close to the Baptists, and there are many churches near me, but I have a few concerns. First, I am not a cessationist where the spiritual gifts are concerned, but neither am I a classic Pentecostal or even charismatic. I think my views are closest to John Wimber's Vineyard Churches, who believe that baptism of the Holy Spirit happens at conversion but that the gifts may be given or manifested later, and that tongues is not the initial evidence of Holy Spirit baptism. They also reject the Word of Faith doctrines.

If there was a Vineyard Church close to me, I would most likely join, but there isn't. I was wondering if the Vineyard's views as I have stated above could be held within a Baptist church. I think they could, from what I have read and from some people I have talked to, but I wanted to ask the members here.

My choices for believers'-only baptism churches where I live are Baptists, Pentecostals, charismatics, and non-denominational churches, which are also Pentecostal or charismatic. Oh, and Churches of Christ, but I love instrumental music, so i don't think I could join a Church of Christ. That may seem petty, I don't know.

So, it seems my best fit would probably be Baptist, and there are plenty here to choose from, but what about my views on spiritual gifts? Would that be a barrier for me in a Baptist church?

Thanks to everyone who posts comments!
 
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Hollow Man

Active Member
ntchristian said:
I was born, baptized, and raised in the Eastern Orthodox faith. However, within the past year, I have become convinced of believers'-only baptism. I have also come to disbelieve apostolic succession and now hold that the local church is an independent body whose officers should be pastor and deacon, as in the churches of the New Testament.

Also, I have moved from the part of my state where there were several Orthodox churches, to a very rural place where there are none. So, even if I could remain Orthodox, I would have no place to go to church. There are a few Roman Catholic churches in this part of the state, but the Roman Catholic Church is not an option for me.

I feel I am close to the Baptists, and there are many churches near me, but I have a few concerns. First, I am not a cessationist where the spiritual gifts are concerned, but neither am I a classic Pentecostal or even charismatic. I think my views are closest to John Wimber's Vineyard Churches, who believe that baptism of the Holy Spirit happens at conversion but that the gifts may be given or manifested later, and that tongues is not the initial evidence of Holy Spirit baptism. They also reject the Word of Faith doctrines.

If there was a Vineyard Church close to me, I would most likely join, but there isn't. I was wondering if the Vineyard's views as I have stated above could be held within a Baptist church. I think they could, from what I have read and from some people I have talked to, but I wanted to ask the members here.

My choices for believers'-only baptism churches where I live are Baptists, Pentecostals, charismatics, and non-denominational churches, which are also Pentecostal or charismatic. Oh, and Churches of Christ, but I love instrumental music, so i don't think I could join a Church of Christ. That may seem petty, I don't know.

So, it seems my best fit would probably be Baptist, and there are plenty here to choose from, but what about my views on spiritual gifts? Would that be a barrier for me in a Baptist church?

Thanks to everyone who posts comments!
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Wow. John Wimber. Haven't heard that heretic's name in years.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
ntchristian said:
So, is name calling acceptable on this forum?
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Actually I think not. Now the question needs to be asked would be why John Wimber would be regarded as a heretic? I have been a Christian since 1962. And I am not familar with what teachings of John Wimber would not be Biblical. I really do not know. But now since it has been brought up. I am going to look into this.
 
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Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
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ntchristian said:
So, is name calling acceptable on this forum?
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I have never heard of him but if this is true of him then two more things are also true. First, he held many unorthodox beliefs. He may have not been a complete heretic as one is lost but his doctrines were heretical. Second, if his doctrines are what you are looking for than you would not fit well in a Baptist church. There are some outliers who might hold to some of those things but they are often seen as Baptists in name only. The typical Baptist church does not accept those hyper-charismatic doctrines as legitimate.

You would most likely be better fitted in a non-denom who at least practices some of those things.
 
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Hollow Man

Active Member
ntchristian said:
So, is name calling acceptable on this forum?
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Nobody called you a name.
Revmitchell said:
I have never heard of him but if this is true of him then two more things are also true. First, he held many unorthodox beliefs. He may have not been a complete heretic as one is lost but his doctrines were heretical.
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I got suckered into the Word of Faith cult when I was a new Christian in the late 80s and early 90s. One of the things I remember about that period is that even Charisma Magazine cut ties with him. Charisma never met a heretic they didn't like. When Charisma decides you're too much of a heretic, that's pretty bad.
 
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Shoostie

Active Member
"Wimber was the leader of the Vineyard Christian Fellowships, a hyper-charismatic..."

I think the term "heretic" carries a bit of connotation of someone who heroically stands up to false teaching withing a church. or at least has an honest difference of opinion. I think Wimber, is more like a Jim Jones or Joseph Smith, except less successful than those two. Wimber was a gluttonous fraud who spread heresies for personal gain.
 
Particular

Particular

Well-Known Member
Shoostie said:
Wimber died in the 20th century. I doubt a current Vineyard statement of faith today has much to do with Wimber. And, statements of faith themselves are fraudulent, downplaying the cultishness of an organization, when the leadership itself is fraudulent.
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What specifically, biblically, made John Wimber like a "Jim Jones or a Joseph Smith?" Those are strong accusations. It is incumbent upon you to prove your accusation.
 
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ntchristian

Active Member
Revmitchell said:
I have never heard of him but if this is true of him then two more things are also true. First, he held many unorthodox beliefs. He may have not been a complete heretic as one is lost but his doctrines were heretical. Second, if his doctrines are what you are looking for than you would not fit well in a Baptist church. There are some outliers who might hold to some of those things but they are often seen as Baptists in name only. The typical Baptist church does not accept those hyper-charismatic doctrines as legitimate.

You would most likely be better fitted in a non-denom who at least practices some of those things.
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I would certainly not consider myself "hyper-charismatic", whatever that means. I have already said that I don't even believe as the classic Pentecostals do. Based on what I have said about my views of spiritual gifts, would that not be acceptable in a Baptist church?
 
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ntchristian

Active Member
Hollow Man said:
Nobody called you a name.


I got suckered into the Word of Faith cult when I was a new Christian in the late 80s and early 90s. One of the things I remember about that period is that even Charisma Magazine cut ties with him. Charisma never met a heretic they didn't like. When Charisma decides you're too much of a heretic, that's pretty bad.
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I didn't say that you called me a heretic. I know you were speaking about Wimber.
 
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ntchristian

Active Member
Shoostie said:
Baptist is the unCatholic tradition. Baptist is also non-charismatic. Even if you've adopted Believers Baptism, I'm not sure why you think Baptist is your best fit.
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I'm not sure it is, that's why I was seeking opinions here. But I don't think I would fit in a classic Pentecostal church like Assembly of God or Church of God. So, considering where I live, my choices are limited.
 
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Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
ntchristian said:
I would certainly not consider myself "hyper-charismatic", whatever that means. I have already said that I don't even believe as the classic Pentecostals do. Based on what I have said about my views of spiritual gifts, would that not be acceptable in a Baptist church?
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If you are anywhere near John Wimber then no. Baptist churches tend to be fairly conservative. Truth is you would likely be uncomfortable in one. You could try and visit one but if you want to practice the charismatic view of gifts they would not let you do that there.
 
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ntchristian

Active Member
Revmitchell said:
If you are anywhere near John Wimber then no. Baptist churches tend to be fairly conservative. Truth is you would likely be uncomfortable in one. You could try and visit one but if you want to practice the charismatic view of gifts they would not let you do that there.
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I'm not sure I hold the "charismatic view of gifts", since I don't consider myself charismatic. I think I know what you are saying, though. But do not Baptists believe in all the spiritual gifts as described in 1 Corinthians and other places?
 
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