Featured Trying to live a Victorious Christian Life?

That made me think of this, C4K ...

Couldn't remember where I saw that, but found a source on the Internet for it. This represents a total lack of understanding of what the Christian life is, and we come across many every single day who buy into what Pride is saying, who think that there is absolutely no excuse for continuing to struggle, who reject the concept of strongholds, who refuse to see that they -- yes, even they -- fail to live up to the standards of perfection they believe are theirs for belonging to Christ. I speak of those who think all you have to do is to point to your "election" or your belief in Christ and call upon Him to snap His fingers and eradicate from your life those miserable sins that keep poking their ugly little heads up and biting you on the posterior.

I suspect that those who apply the epithet of "Struggle Theology" to others are unable to conquer their own sins as well, and seek to make others miserable so they have company.

 

preacher4truth

Hello P4T....

In the OP...JK said this-
[Everyone once in a while I run across a preacher who I know is on a much higher walk with God than other preachers that I meet, This man is one of those people.

I promise these will be worth your time.]

So he found a good series of sermons and wanted to share with others...what reaction did he get???

1]He preached nearly five hours on the victorious christian life? D.L. Moody summed it up in less than 250 words.

as if this was shocking???

2]I'm with TNID here, I have to wonder about spending five hours of preaching on "How to Live a Victorious Christian Life."

as if 5 hours would exhaust this topic???

3]Can you sum up his teaching on the subject in a couple of sentences so I will want to slog through five hours of preaching on the subject?

If you tell a hungry Christian that these are good messages....you would expect that they would make the effort to sharpen themselves on these truths...

Exactly...then everyone wonders why the church struggles...lol

Seems that way quite often....

Some who think they figured it all out, by reading a bumper sticker, instead of such a study book would do well to open up a proven work and humble themselves and learn from teachers God has already given...instead of offering shared ignorance.


JK....listening to these sermons now....sounds good so far!!!

 

thisnumbersdisconnected;

Ok....depends on what you mean with this.....

You cannot have the word...and not have theology because the word is a revealing of God Himself by His own word.That word revealed and believed is doctrine Dconn......your point is self destructive.

preaching is a God ordained means....you speak down and against it, as if what???? we should just read your posts....please:laugh:

No...and it is not worth that much either, because it is devoid of scripture, and theology which you speak against.

 

Spurgeon, Ryle, and Ironside are hardly bumper sticker theology. I, for one, have carefully and assiduously studied this topic of 'struggle theology' and 'victorious Christian living.' I have read a couple of dozen books on both sides of the issue. There is no need to listen to five hours of preaching that I know is going to offer something it can't fulfil.

The Christian life is a struggle. Paul calls it a fight. Paul tells us to endure hardness. Paul tells us to run with patience the race that is set before us. To deny that the Christian life is a struggle is to give false hope. It is dangerous to deny the struggle. I know a handful of men who have suffered greatly because they never got that 'victory' that was promised them.

Victory is assured, even the struggle. live in victory every day, even though I struggle with sin and my own weakness. That teaches me that I must confide in Christ's strength alone.

 

If anyone wants to read both sides of the debate there are a couple of concise texts out there which I think do a good job of summarising the two major viewpoints.

'Victory in Christ' by Charles Trumbull presents the idea that victory in Christ is an act of faith just like salvation was.
'Holiness - the False and the True' by H.A. Ironside (out of print, but available in ebook format) suggests that victory in the Christian life comes though the kinds of things suggested by TND above.

'Holiness' by J.C. Ryle also does a good job presenting the latter view.

 

thisnumbersdisconnected

Here you go again.....when any of us agree and see things the same way...you are critical because we do not follow your hobby horse..of "strongholds" which is a denial of sanctification and being set free from sins reigning power......

This is a completely false dichotomy Dconn...as if those teachers who God has given as gifts to the church were not rooted as the psalm 1 man????
The y did not have the word and Spirit...only you do???You have got to be kidding Dconn...they forgot more practical theology than you will learn....

You are so "steeped" in the word, that you do not know basic theology that they espouse.You are aware that it exists....but you speak down at it.

hey..Dconn...look at your posts on this thread...you despise man's theology, yet when it suits you, you quote Moody and this man Price..???
You can see this inconsistency for yourself

Again...you falsely assume that these men did not delight in the word itself,and still listen to others who God has given much to.You seek to diminish these teachers because you cannot grasp the truths they teach about...so you attack the messengers.....that is why you can speak with disdain about the brother offering 5-7 hours of sermons on a topic, instead of encouraging him.

If they could figure it out by themselves they would not be asking for help Dconn.......Scripture says a companion of wise men will be wise...a companion of fools will be destroyed.
Some of these men have stood the test of time. They can open up the very word that you claim you love and save someone much grief of mind by pointing them to the very Christ you speak of.

Wow.....as if none of these men did that Dconn???? seriously....if you read some of these reformers and puritans and teachers you would know this....but you reject their scriptural God given wisdom for your false philosophical stronghold concept...which 9 times out of ten is probably you trying to get some goat to behave outwardly like a Christian, rather than get saved and live an actual Christian life.:thumbs:

This tragically low view of the church and God's call upon pastors and teachers contributes to the low state that many churches are in.
You post as if in unbelief that Christ has not called anyone to the ministry.

:thumbsup:This is good Dconn...but guess what...others do it also...not just you and your little circle.

I am confident with many here that they are serving the Lord as He wants them to.

[/QUOTE]

Sorry Dconn but you are a bit too full of yourself here...even though you want to "assure us".....we see what you post and it does not match your assessment of yourself;

3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

 

It means exactly what it says. If you don't grasp it, that in itself explains a lot. So does the fact you don't even try to touch on the other seven points.

You're absolutely right. Because "theology" means "the study of God." My becoming immersed in His Word, therefore, is "theology." For me to know God intimately, to study Him carefully, to have a "theology," does not mean I have to have one with someone else's name on it.

Well, look at that. Do you realize that statement right there just completely endorsed everything I've said on this thread? We should end the conversation now, bonded as brothers who understand one another, but you had to go an add this ...

Obviously you are not able to be comfortable studying theology unless someone else has done the hard work for you. Like Tozer, like Pink, like Calvin. All are good guides, all have broken ground. But they provide a limited viewpoint. Unless you are in the word yourself, being a Berean about what they tell you, checking against Scripture, then you are in danger of being deceived -- and the most likely culprit of the deception is yourself. To claim my point regarding study of God's word is "destructive," just because I'm not reading from your approved list, is utter folly. Paul was a theologian. His instruction is authoritative and validated by his eyewitness, as is John's and Peter's, and particularly Luke's because of his investigative nature. The writer of Hebrews, be it Paul or someone else, may have been the greatest transitory Judeo-Christian theologian in history.

Claudius of Turin, in the seventh century, postulated concepts that were later adopted into the Reformation. A Whizzo button for you if you know what he was primarily known for teaching.

Anselm of Canterbury was another giant of theology in the 12th century, the author of the ontological argument for the existence of God and developer of the Satisfaction Theory of the Lord's sacrifice of atonement. He also is considered the father scholasticism, pulling teaching out of the monastic methodology of the day and building a system that was adopted by the ancient colleges and universities, a system that is the very foundation of teaching today.

You often speak of Calvin, Erasmus, Luther, Zwingli and Perkins, but you also ignore other great 16th century theologians such as Alesius, Bucer, Hooker and Knox. You reject great men of the faith such as Jonathan Edwards, Charles and John Wesley, John Gill of the 18th century, because they don't entirely agree with what you have adopted as your strict theology, much to your loss. You are in favor of "theology" only so long as it is strict Reformed that does not challenge your narrow view.

A completely inconsequential statement that would be ignored if not for its fallacy. I don't speak out against preaching. I speak strongly for it. Perhaps you should reread the post.

What I speak out against is a man who only roots himself in learning and never, ever once looks up to actually do anything with it, other than to haughtily raise his head and arrogantly criticize others for not doing it his way, which is to say, no way at all. Certainly we are to embed ourselves in theology. God's theology, not man's, though we can certainly take cues from what other men have concluded.

But instead of spending five hours listening to a man not our pastor tell us how to live victoriously, it behooves us to spend five hours in God's word learning what He has to say about it. Perhaps, if you don't understand what God's word is saying, then you should pray and ask Him to reveal it to you. You might try using a good concordance and lexicon in the process.

That said, I do love good preaching. My pastor is an outstanding preacher. But I don't need five hours of preaching from someone I don't know, have no track record with, do not know where he comes from, nearly so much as I need to spend five hours in God's word.

Another statement to be ignored if not for it's ignorance.

Obviously I do not speak against theology. I speak against your theology. That is what you really do not like. Tough. There isn't one thing in that list of eight bulletpoints that cannot be supported by Scripture. In fact, by their very nature, they are the heart of Scripture. That you don't know that, or worse, know it and ignore it, pretending it is just words, is also very telling.

We are like the man of Psalm 1:2, delighting in the "Law of the Lord," meditating on it day and night, becoming like the tree planted by the river bank in verse 3. We are to have deep roots, knowing God's word, knowing what God teaches. I find it instructive that the Old Testament prophets -- the preachers of their time -- were primarily used by God to warn Israel when it was going astray, but throughout the Old Testament, men are told to study the word for themselves, to learn from it, to delight in it, to live for it and by it, changing their lives and the lives around them.

If we are like that tree, we must realize, a tree is more than roots. A tree is the hefty, strong, immovable trunk that stands strong in the storm, and the lofty branches that reach out into the world to touch the sky, provide for others, give shelter, food and provision to them when they suffer, to minister to them the word of God. And how are we to do that? Hand them the words of Tozer or Pink? Or should we know the word so confidently that we can speak truth to them extemporaneously? I select the last of those choices.

If you're spending all your time studying the theology of others, listening to the interpretation of others, and particularly resorting to watching five hours of online preaching -- if you're letting that be your measure of holiness instead of spending one hour in your own Bible and four hours at your local mission to talk, to befriend, you've missed the point completely.

You're just a root ball. You aren't the tree God planted.

This and the rest of the flatulence in that post is covered in the above reply.

 

Nailed. :thumbs: :thumbs:

As the Spirit said 'they will not ENDURE sound doctrine...' -- 2 Timothy 4:3. That is they cannot put up with sound doctrine for long, they tire of it, then they despise it and disdain those who do endure it and stand for it and mock them for being 'theological' (studiers of God). And more than this they cannot even see that this passage speaks of them.

Be thankful for this Icon, and I know that you already are. raying:

Icon we have one here who endorses the writings of one Sarah Young who herself grew tired of the Word (sound doctrine) by her own admission so she set out to find truth all on her own with Jesus speaking to her one on one. Then voila we have her 'Jesus Calling' and droves follow this. This gives more insight into what you are dealing with.

 

I am glad this series of messages has been a blessing to you. May the Holy Spirit continue to do His great work.

 

Paul's Summary of the Victorious life

"As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:" - Col. 2:6

1. In the spirit of humility
2. In faith
3. In the spirit of submission
4. In His word
5. In His grace

 

Doubt it, not going to listen to them. I know, my loss.

"I am broken over the arguing here,"

It is a debate board, sorry you were expecting different.

"pride abounds here on this board"

Uuuuu, from all quarters it would seem.

"and it's such an offense to our holy God,"

Glad you know the mind of God, I rather think He may well be laughing at the goings on.

"how about we stop acting like we have arrived"

Okay, let's ALL do that.

"and start acting like ungodly sinners saved by grace."

:wavey:

Sorry, for the reaction you received to your kind offer of info that you thought would be helpful. And if OTHERS act like they are unsaved sinners and forget they are saved by grace, well at least they agree on the final part :tongue3: At least I think they do - maybe that will bring up another thread.

 

I’ll second that I’m glad it is a blessing for you. I’ve made it through the first video, but I must admit with some difficulty. By that I mean I had an attention issue, because it so happens that he speaks fast and adds many new thoughts in the middle of completing another thought and the way I have to hear is I have to forcibly nail down the main thought and fight back jumping track with my own thoughts which come even faster than his fast talking, …if you can follow that thought. Anyway, I noticed pretty quickly that it was going to be challenging for me to sort through and follow his main thoughts just because his style of speaking and my style of listening didn’t work together well for me, if I can’t slow it down it’s just a blur. I like to think deeply through my added thoughts about what another is saying to enjoy it and get more out of it and he simply didn’t give me the time to do so for my trying to sort through all his added thoughts. He doesn’t give me time to think an if I can’t do my thing it gets boring watching the blur go by.

Usually as I get used to the manner of speaking of a person such as Prettyman I get better at catching which thoughts to nail down so I can follow, but again this individual was/is a particularly difficult challenge for me. The speaking/hearing issue was so bad a conflict I was about give up when at about 6 minutes I got into the same boxcar with him for a while and began to enjoy the sermon up to the 30 minute mark where I had to cut off. I just finished the last 20 minutes where again I had the challenge to get “get in the zone” to follow him, but I particularly got into the last 15 minutes and plan to listen some more.

The bottom line for me is the content of message and so far it seems this message might give one “a shot in the arm” and personally ’m always looking for such an adrenaline boost.

I’m with Icon on this (looks up to see if sky is falling) that 5 hours is not an unreasonable amount of time to get into some detail on a good message. If I hear the whole message I’m likely to spend much more time than that sorting through the details afterward.

And there you have it! My assessment…

 

The only ones I see matching that description here are those who believe the theology of men is preferable to the theology of God. Certainly my point all along has been that our sanctification is an ongoing process. Those who reject that idea do indeed believe they've "arrived," but I believe they have a major surprise coming before the Bema Seat.

 

:thumbsup::wavey::thumbsup:

 

:BangHead:

To find such great support for C4K's post is in direct conflict with, in fact a 180-degree turn, from all your previously stated positions. Do you not realize that C4K and I have been in lockstep from our first posts? Your "thumbsup" and "wavey icon display here is a sign of your disingenuousness. It denies all your arguments against what I've been saying all along. This childish cartoon display absolutely proves your shallowness and inability to not only discern biblical truth, it is also proof positive of your arrogance blinding your reason, given that it would appear by this display you've definitively abdicated your position to support the diametric opposite. Unbelievable. And you're actually proud of this post! That's perhaps the most mind-boggling aspect of it.

 

thisnumbersdisconnected

C4K recovered himself and responded by mentioning ryle, spurgeon,etc and speaking of the reality of the struggle that takes place in the Christian life Dconn. I look to find agreement when I can. C4k can speak for himself.I do not think he was tuned into the issue initially...but when he saw what was being discussed he adjusted:thumbs:

In post 30 he offers encouragement to JK...earlier he recommended some good study books on the topic...Rlye ,ironside,,,good men.

he was being light hearted at first...but then jumped back into the thread...not quite lock step....again he was being positive...not taking a shot at P4T like you did.

I supported the part I bolded in his post...you have a "stronghold of bitterness"that you must seek to rid yourself of Dconn...before it consumes you.:flower:

You attack again..this is the bitterness ozzing out...like when you bore false witness earlier;

I have Edwards history of redemption along with me this trip,and Gill ...cause of God and truth was one of the first books I added to my library years ago.

the fact is you know little about me Dconn...yet you just make it up as you go along:sleeping_2:

Dconn...when you attack and post such bitterness...why would it come as a surprise that you view me as arrogant? I do not like what you post most of the time....excessive hubris....little edification intended.
Why should I or any Cal like that again?

.

No..my position has not changed at all....C4k...just opened up and clarified his earlier statement ...I agree when I can...C4k and I have not interacted that much...we have some differences, but I have agreed with him in times past.
he does not have the "agenda' you bring with you.

you are over thinking this dconn.....just read the thread..it is you who are doubleminded.......

This false dichotomy in particular:

 

Benjamin

:thumbs: I think it was a word in season for Jk...I only listened to one so far...maybe do a few more later on.

.

Good thought...simply pause it and sort out your thoughts before moving ahead....do not let a good thought get over-run....

This is indeed a struggle in and of itself.....especially listening live.....

Sometimes it is hard to know which thought is the most beneficial:thumbs:

Jk promised this in the OP.

Icon panics and begins to self examine himself in light of this development

Well said!

 

You really need to knock that kind of stuff off. First it's a lie. Secondly, it's hypocritical of you. You contradict yourself. You recommend certain authors on the subject on the one hand then accuse others of following men. Most of us here --(including you) study the Scriptures like Bereans and profit from the writings of men God has raised up who have invested their time and effort in seeking to explain the sacred text for our spiritual benefit.

It is indeed. And yours is on the bumpy side lately. ;-)

 

I know a nerve has been struck when the intent of opposition is to attack the member rather than deal with the content of the posts. Resorting to such tactics speaks volumes. :laugh: