Featured Trying to live a Victorious Christian Life?

I spoke the truth --deal with it.

 

Bingo!

Here we have one who ridicules others as 'following a man' yet brags that allegedly he and another 'man' are in 'lockstep' theologically.

You're correct Rippon, oh the hypocrisy and the fact that he cannot see this is to stand in awe because One has allowed it to be so.

 

I don't like to personalise posts. I do everything I can to avoid it. But I think I need to say a couple of things here.

I fully understood the topic from the time I saw the sermon title about 'struggle theology.' I was not being light-hearted in any measure. When I first agreed about the five hours of preaching it was because I do understand the teaching. I agreed with other posters that it would be a futile effort to hear 5 hours more on a topic I have researched and already know that I disagree with the teaching. I also consider denying the struggle to be a dangerous teaching. I trust I made those points clear in a kind and respectful manner.

TND made some excellent points which I think deserved credit. Anyone who reads the politics section know that he and I are not in 'lock step' by any means. but when I find an area where I can agree with a brother I try to build on that.

My only change was when I considered the author of the OP. He is a young man sorting out his theology. I didn't want to sound critical of him. When I was his age, only about 40 years ago I admit, I took in a lot that I would not agree with today. God used all of those things to make the man I am today. A lot of what I heard and adopted was off base, but somehow God used it in my life.

If this series of messages is something God can use to mould and shape this young man's life than I truly am glad he has been blessed. That is why I made the comment about the Holy Spirit doing His work. The last thing I want to do is dampen the fire in an young man's heart, even if I feel like it is a little misguided in some areas. If this teaching has an upside, it is that it reminds people if the utter futility of trying to serve God in our own strength, and if that is what is gleaned than the Holy Spirit surely has the power to fine tune it.

 

I think I have a pretty clear understanding of what struggle theology means, but this preacher used is as as epithet against those who don't agree with him about the route to victorious Christian living . I don't know of any serious minded believers who are striving to live for Christ who are under illusion that we can do anything in our own strength and none who have a ''I'll just accept sin attitude.'

The Christian life is a struggle because if it would not be a struggle if there was no chance of failure. We cannot just 'jump on the victory train' as one writer puts it and sit back and let Jesus give carry us through the struggles. He gives is the strength and He goes with us but we still have to deal with trials and temptations which are to strengthen us for the future. If we did not have to fight we wouldn't need the armour of God. We wouldn't need to be told to endure hardness. We wouldn't need to be told to run the race.

One of the best books I have read recently on this idea is 'Holiness' by J.C. Ryle. I know you are a student and resources are limited, but if you have a Kindle or can read on your computer I think it 99 cents at Amazon.

I am glad that the Lord has used these messages in your heart, but I would encourage you to read some other viewpoints on the issue.

Holiness: The False and True recounts H.A. Ironside's own experiences and conclusions about the matter and was a great help to me as I worked through this.

 

Mho

First - thanks for thinking of us.

I didn't have the time to listen to the sermons, but I am sure they are everything and more than you say! The reason I didn't listen is because years ago, while attending Eagles Nest Christian Fellowship in Tustin, I attended a six-month class that was probably even more extensive, and I am sure exhaustive than your pastors' series. Plus, I went through six more months [there were an hour a week for six months] a class titled, "Armed and Dangerous!"

I feel like I am living the victorious life, and have been living that life for years. I don't know if I can sum it up in the short snapshot my brothers laid out in response to your series, but I have the Scriptural tools and life experience to overcome everything thrown at me in this supernatural war we fight each day!

Of course, I'd not be victorious except for Jesus, and the in filling power of the Holy Ghost, and while I have had my spiritual read-end handed to me [in other words I have lost a few battles from time to time] I know that in the end, WE win this war, and that helps me to get back up on my feet and proceed [not shy away from] to the next battle!

Again, thanks for caring, and I hope some of your fervor, and zeal rub off on a few folks, and that they do listen, so they can know what it means to REALLY live a victorious life! Shalom!

 

Sounds like you have a pretty balanced view on the subject. I too feel generally victorious as I depend on Christ to strengthen me to live the life He wants me to live - but I too stumble and fall and can only be restored on my walk by His power.

I know it is an old book that a lot of folks find boring, but Pilgrim's Progress does a great job of describing what a victorious Christian life is like.

 

Not broken enough to reserve your judgment, I see.

 

Is this 'the balance' you refer to? :

"...I of myself with the mind, indeed, serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin..."

"...the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak..."

 

C4K is right. It is as I stated earlier in the post that drew so much ire from some here, but it speaks the truth. "Struggle theology" is an epithet that is used against progressive sanctification doctrine by those who refuse to believe it is valid. There are those on this board who believe that the positional sanctification we receive at the time of belief is all there is, and that it is all that is needed. You've seen them deny there are strongholds in the lives of those with addictions, who are stuck in adultery, pornography or other sexual addictions, or overeating, workaholism, or other sins they cannot seem to overcome, though outside of those things they may live a more or less solid Christian life. Paul himself wrote of these strongholds.

2 Corinthians 10, NASB
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh,
4 for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses.
5 We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,
6 and we are ready to punish all disobedience, whenever your obedience is complete. ​

First, there are those who claim Paul is speaking of the "we" of church leadership, that he is chastising the Corinth believers for continuing in some sin. However, it is obvious from the context that the "we" is a universal usage, referring to the struggle of all Christians, particularly in v. 6 where he speaks of being "ready to punish all disobedience whenever your disobedience is complete." "Punishment" is an unfortunate rendering, as the Greek ekdikeo actually means "vindicate," or "protect." The meaning is that we as Christians who find ourselves in sin are vindicated, protected from punishment, though obviously elsewhere in the Bible is stated that we must confess and repent of those sins. This passage follows Paul's challenge to those who accused him, essentially, of being two-faced: Bold and confrontational when he wrote to them from afar, but meek and humble when he was present with them. Then he launches into the passage above, defending himself against those who are believers but choose to be judgmental and accusatory toward him and his ministry.

The above is from the NASB98. In v. 4, the NASB77 renders the Greek ochuroma as "strongholds." So does the KJV. It is seen above in v. 4 as "fortresses." Commentators are nearly universal in interpreting this passage as referring to our sin that may continue to plague us in our believing lives. John Gill said,

Yet Prettyman, the speaker in your five hours of sermons on victorious Christian living, denies strongholds and denies struggle. That flies in the face of the biblical evidence.

 

the quote from Gill is being misused in this post speaking about unsaved people who are rebellion against Christ and and the strongholds are ungodly thought against the truth of God. To apply this idea to Christians is a denial of Romans 6

 

One could interpret it that way, Icon, but not in light of the context, as I stated in that post. Here's Gill's statement regarding the warfare Paul mentions in v. 3 (keep in mind, he quotes from the KJV):

Then we have his entire commentary on v. 4, which I previously left out for sake of space, but perhaps it would be best to quote the whole thing in order to further establish the context (warning, this is going to be lengthy):

As I said, quite obviously Paul is speaking of the believers' difficulty in consistently walking the Christian walk, and the hope and peace they can yet have as we fight the good fight.

 

Lets see:

1) Learn all Christ taught and commanded.
2) Strive to follow and obey all that Christ taught and commanded.
3) Teach others by word and deed all Christ taught and commanded.
4) Keep your eyes on the prize, "welcome home, faithful servant."

 

That didn't take five hours either. :thumbsup:

Now, the trick, as with my eight bullet points, is to live out the words on paper -- or in this case, on screen. We see again, the concept is simple, the doing is what is hard.

 

And that is where the difference comes in. The instantaneous practical sanctificationists would tell us it is easy. All you have to do is trust Jesus and you have it.

This normally leads to a 'higher plane' division between the 'have its' and don't have its.'

 

Sanctification requires cooperation. The Holy Spirit awaits, more than willing to lead a willing individual to righteousness. But if the "spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak," as Jesus said, ain't much good gonna happen (that's my paraphrase :laugh: ). That is why reading, studying, absorbing the word -- meditating on it day and night, as David so often wrote -- is essential.

Sure we can listen to good preaching. Not a thing wrong with that.
Sure we can read and learn good theology. Not a thing wrong with that.
Sure we can acquire concordances, lexicons, even commentaries, for use in our personal study. Not a thing wrong with that.

But ultimately, the rubber has to meet the road. Carl Edwards isn't a great race car driver because he studied others and learned what they did well, without actually applying what he learned to his own driving. Carl's a brother in Christ, which is why I use him as an example. We have to apply what we learn -- we eventually have to make it personal. If we don't, it's just listening, reading, and acquiring, to no effect.

That makes us a professional student, not a believer on the road to being like Christ.

 

This is disturbingly erroneous if not an out and out denial of the message of the Gospel.

 

I'd love to see you expound on that to show me where I am in error.

Please note that I do not deny positional sanctification, which is established at belief ...

Romans 8, NASB
29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; ​

... I also endorse and believe progressive sanctification, which is what I speak of in the previous post ...

Romans 12
2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.​

... and in ultimate sanctification in heaven when we receive our perfect spiritual bodies in exchange for our filthy flesh.

Ephesians 1
13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation - having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory. ​

So, on that basis, go for it.

 

Another example of a Calvinist claiming to know the state of someone else's salvation.