atpollard
Well-Known Member
I cannot shake the feeling that you think too highly of yourself if you think you have the power to limit God’s omnipotence.
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TULIP for Real Life
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
But Scripture does not state that, Rockson, it states that He will have mercy upon whom He will have mercy on:
" And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy." ( Exodus 33:19 )
...and He states that HIS will is paramount:
" Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, 'My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure'; ( Isaiah 46:10 )
" [There are] many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand." ( Proverbs 19:21 )
" For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul [it]? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?" ( Isaiah 14:27 )
" And all the inhabitants of the earth [are] reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and [among] the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?" ( Daniel 4:35 )
Search His word for passages of like speaking, sir, and you will see that He is Lord, and we are mere men.
His will over rules ours ( John 1:13, etc. )
It seems that you have a misconception about man's will versus God's.
There is no such thing as a God who allows men to "make it possible" for God to work, in any way, shape or form.
As an impartial observer, I would make the statement that your will appears to be more important than His.
Does your God bow to your will?
Mine blows right past my will, and does whatever He wants... because whatever He does is just and righteous, no matter what I think.
If I haven't said it before, I'll say it to you now:
You seem to have a strange God, Rockson...one who lets Himself be limited by the will of His creation, and over rules nothing ( or at the least, the subject of their will in salvation ) without their permission.
Man seeks to define what he is unable to, not being an uncorrupted, impartial observer and disqualified as his own judge.
Let's define it as God defines it:
" For [there is] not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not." ( Ecclesiastes 7:20 )
" What [is] man, that he should be clean? and [he which is] born of a woman, that he should be righteous?" ( Job 15:14 )
" If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." ( 1 John 1:8 )
" Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?" ( Proverbs 20:9 )
" What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;" ( Romans 3:9 )
" As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
"They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one." ( Romans 3:10-12 )
"Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God." ( Romans 3:19 )
God is the only one that is good:
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God." ( Mark 10:18 )
Man says that the meaning of the word "just" is "fair" and "impartial", while God says that the meaning of the word "Just", is His judgment on a matter...whether we like it or not.
Do you find that offensive?
I don't.
I find it very sobering, and it puts me in my place...a worthless sinner with nothing to stand on except His grace and mercy towards me.
So, it's really best to let God be God, and to let Him define what is Just and what is not.
He said, " Jacob have I loved, and Esau have I hated. "
You can argue against that if you like, but I won't.
I fear and respect Him for His power over His creation, and for many other things....
...and I love Him for bothering to save me.
May He bless you richly, sir.
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
Yes, all the ends of the earth...not all the people of the earth.
People out of every tongue, tribe and nation ( Revelation 5:9, Revelation 7:9 ) are from all the ends of the earth.
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
Who is willing?
None, in and of themselves ( Romans 3:10-12 ).
Who will believe?
Those that are ordained to eternal life ( Acts 13:48 ), already His sheep ( John 10:26 ), given the gift of belief ( Philippians 1:29 ), given to the Son by the Father ( John 6:64-65 ), been subjected to the work of God in making them believe ( John 6:29 ), foreknown, predestinated, called, justified and glorified ( Romans 8:29-30 ), chosen to salvation ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 ), chosen and caused to approach Him ( Psalms 65:4 ), declared righteous by Him ( Romans 8:33 ), those who were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world ( Ephesians 1:4-5 ), etc.
There's far more to it than the passages you're posting, sir.
There's a reason why men believe.
None, in and of themselves ( Romans 3:10-12 ).
Who will believe?
Those that are ordained to eternal life ( Acts 13:48 ), already His sheep ( John 10:26 ), given the gift of belief ( Philippians 1:29 ), given to the Son by the Father ( John 6:64-65 ), been subjected to the work of God in making them believe ( John 6:29 ), foreknown, predestinated, called, justified and glorified ( Romans 8:29-30 ), chosen to salvation ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 ), chosen and caused to approach Him ( Psalms 65:4 ), declared righteous by Him ( Romans 8:33 ), those who were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world ( Ephesians 1:4-5 ), etc.
There's far more to it than the passages you're posting, sir.
There's a reason why men believe.
We are all guilty before Him. He extends His Mercy through repentance to whosoever will and salvation to those who believe on the Son.
Mat 10:32
Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heave
And who are the whosoever in the passage? Contextually, its those who believe in Him. In other words, context is those who already believe in Him.
The Meaning of Discipleship
“A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a slave above his master. It is enough for the disciple that he become like his teacher, and the slave like his master. If they have called the head of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign the members of his household! “Therefore do not fear them, for there is nothing concealed that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. What I tell you in the darkness, speak in the light; and what you hear whispered in your ear, proclaim upon the housetops. Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows.“Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven. “Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW; and A MAN’S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD. “He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.[Matthew 10:24-39]
He is telling them that those, who in times of persecution deny Him, He will also deny. He is not saying that those who are lost who deny Him He will also deny them before His Father. And don't pull the Romans 10:9,10 card next.
Jesus was chosen to be slain,, not you names chosen. There is no punctuation in Greek,
1Pe 1:19
But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you
All men are drawn, in different manners, to make a choice.
A response is required.
Mat 11:17
And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
The Holy Spirit works to lead us to Jesus.
Jhn 15:26
¶
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Jhn 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all menunto me.
Jhn 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day
We can all be saved. The way is set, the destination is prepared. God allows us free will to sin and to repent.
There is not election, but conviction to the lost.
Every mention in the NT of the elect is about those already saved, not to become saved.
There is no mention of the non elect , any where. It is a non scriptural imaginary word
1Pe 1:19
But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you
All men are drawn, in different manners, to make a choice.
A response is required.
Mat 11:17
And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
The Holy Spirit works to lead us to Jesus.
Jhn 15:26
¶
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Jhn 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all menunto me.
Jhn 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day
We can all be saved. The way is set, the destination is prepared. God allows us free will to sin and to repent.
There is not election, but conviction to the lost.
Every mention in the NT of the elect is about those already saved, not to become saved.
There is no mention of the non elect , any where. It is a non scriptural imaginary word
There is no election? Great! Then many will be there that God never chose, seeing election is God's way of saving ppl.
We confess to believe. We cannot be saved without repentance. We can not be saved with only repentance. We must repent , acknowledging our helpless position and then believe Jesus is our only way of Salvation. Believing with our repentance is wrong, Repentance without believing in Jesus is futile.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Where does the Bible say that man will repent, if....................?
Can you show me one passage that tells us that mankind will abandon the sin that he has a death grip on, and turn his collective back on it if God does something?
Dave G
Well-Known Member
No, you don't.
You confess because you believe. The passage you're referencing is Romans 10:9-17, and it is written to believers, not unbelievers.
What you're describing is works.
If a person can do something to merit God's grace, it is works. Not grace ( Romans 11:5-6 ).
Election ( God's choosing of a people for Himself ) is grace...
A person attempting to merit God's grace by performing an action, is works.
And yet repentance is a gift of God.
nope,
Act 2:21
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
The Holy Spirit draws the sinner to Jesus, Jesus blood allows us to know God.
The Holy Spirit convicts us of our need and that Jesus is the only way that need can be satisfied.
Faith is the gift, Grace gives us faith to exercise
Jesus is the chosen Lamb, yes. And God chose(elected) us in Him before the creation of the world.[Ephesians 1:4]
And if Jesus draws all men, then all men will be saved, seeing those He draws He will also raise on the last day.
And who are those who believe?
And so is repentance.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
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