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TULIP of Scripture
- Thread starter Van
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can we still use straw men while discussing these topics?
Only if you want to misrepresent your opponent.
All other uses are strictly prohibited!
:laugh:Two Views of the TULIP, revised
The TULIP is a weed in the field of scriptural truth, deceiving with its appeal to worldly values.
The TULIP should be a beautiful flower of God, spreading the points of its pedals above the bedrock of scripture from which it arose.
“T” stands for Total Depravity; mankind is unable to respond to the gospel unless his core fallen character is altered by the direct supernatural influence of the Holy Spirit.
"T" should stand for"Totally in Adam" totally corrupted with our "old man" (Adamic) nature and totally separated from God and therefore dead in our sinful state in Adam.
“U” stands for Unconditional Election; we were saved or damned from eternity past for all eternity without regard for our faith in Christ, our faith was given to us because of God’s choice, we are saved by election and not through faith.
The "U" should stand for Unlimited Reconciliation; God is reconciling mankind to Himself, one person at a time, by first accepting the sacrifice of Jesus as the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, but then causing those whose faith He credits as righteousness to be placed spiritually in Christ and receive the reconciliation. Therefore, we who are in Christ, beg the lost as ambassadors of Christ, "be reconciled to Christ."
“L” stands for Limited Atonement; Christ died only for the preselected elect, chosen as specific foreseen individuals before the foundation of the world, the opportunity for the salvation of those not preselected is non existent.
"L" should stand for Limited Atonement: God has provided reconciliation for all mankind, but not all men have received the reconciliation. When we are individually chosen and set apart based on God crediting our faith as righteousness, we are placed spiritually in Christ by God, being united with Christ and made alive, but this atonement or "at one ment" is limited to those God puts spiritually in Christ.
“I” stands for Irresistible Grace; the preselected elect are enabled and compelled to respond affirmatively to the gospel, by the direct supernatural influence of the Holy Spirit that both overcomes the preexisting Total Depravity and gives the gift of faith so that we think we trusted in Christ when in fact God did it all.
“I” should stand for In Christ; when we are spiritually baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit, we are converted, given a new heart with our faith hard wired into our soul, and with a clear conscience such that we arise from the baptism into Christ’s death a new creature in Christ, anointed for good works and then indwelt with the Holy Spirit as a helper and pledge to an inheritance of Eternal life.
“P” stands for Perseverance of the Saints; those individually chosen before the foundation of the world are compelled by Irresistible Grace to remain faithful to God, such that once a person is saved, they will never fall away from their inheritance of eternal life.
“P” should stand for Perseverance of the Saints; those set apart and converted have their faith protected by God such that will always love Jesus, and anyone who says they were saved but no longer loves Jesus was never saved. But once a person is saved, is “In Christ” nothing can snatch him or her out of God’s hand, and because their faith is protected, they would never want to leave the faith. Once saved, always saved.
It is time to return to topic and put aside the TULIP of Calvinism and proclaim the TULIP of Scripture.
The TULIP is a weed in the field of scriptural truth, deceiving with its appeal to worldly values.
The TULIP should be a beautiful flower of God, spreading the points of its pedals above the bedrock of scripture from which it arose.
“T” stands for Total Depravity; mankind is unable to respond to the gospel unless his core fallen character is altered by the direct supernatural influence of the Holy Spirit.
"T" should stand for"Totally in Adam" totally corrupted with our "old man" (Adamic) nature and totally separated from God and therefore dead in our sinful state in Adam.
“U” stands for Unconditional Election; we were saved or damned from eternity past for all eternity without regard for our faith in Christ, our faith was given to us because of God’s choice, we are saved by election and not through faith.
The "U" should stand for Unlimited Reconciliation; God is reconciling mankind to Himself, one person at a time, by first accepting the sacrifice of Jesus as the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, but then causing those whose faith He credits as righteousness to be placed spiritually in Christ and receive the reconciliation. Therefore, we who are in Christ, beg the lost as ambassadors of Christ, "be reconciled to Christ."
“L” stands for Limited Atonement; Christ died only for the preselected elect, chosen as specific foreseen individuals before the foundation of the world, the opportunity for the salvation of those not preselected is non existent.
"L" should stand for Limited Atonement: God has provided reconciliation for all mankind, but not all men have received the reconciliation. When we are individually chosen and set apart based on God crediting our faith as righteousness, we are placed spiritually in Christ by God, being united with Christ and made alive, but this atonement or "at one ment" is limited to those God puts spiritually in Christ.
“I” stands for Irresistible Grace; the preselected elect are enabled and compelled to respond affirmatively to the gospel, by the direct supernatural influence of the Holy Spirit that both overcomes the preexisting Total Depravity and gives the gift of faith so that we think we trusted in Christ when in fact God did it all.
“I” should stand for In Christ; when we are spiritually baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit, we are converted, given a new heart with our faith hard wired into our soul, and with a clear conscience such that we arise from the baptism into Christ’s death a new creature in Christ, anointed for good works and then indwelt with the Holy Spirit as a helper and pledge to an inheritance of Eternal life.
“P” stands for Perseverance of the Saints; those individually chosen before the foundation of the world are compelled by Irresistible Grace to remain faithful to God, such that once a person is saved, they will never fall away from their inheritance of eternal life.
“P” should stand for Perseverance of the Saints; those set apart and converted have their faith protected by God such that will always love Jesus, and anyone who says they were saved but no longer loves Jesus was never saved. But once a person is saved, is “In Christ” nothing can snatch him or her out of God’s hand, and because their faith is protected, they would never want to leave the faith. Once saved, always saved.
It is time to return to topic and put aside the TULIP of Calvinism and proclaim the TULIP of Scripture.
According to Calvinism, Jesus died for the elect only and He did not die to provide a propitiation for the whole world. Anyone who claims Calvinism teaches Christ died for all mankind is presenting the TUIP without the L.
Calvinism is directly shown to be false doctrine by 1 John 2:2 where Christ became the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, all mankind. Calvinism cannot get around the logical necessity of claiming Jesus only died for the elect because if the elect had been chosen individually before Christ died, then He would have only died for those chosen. However, if God chooses individuals based on crediting their faith as righteousness, as 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says, then Christ dying to provide propitiation for mankind, Unlimited Reconciliation, makes sense.
Calvinism is directly shown to be false doctrine by 1 John 2:2 where Christ became the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, all mankind. Calvinism cannot get around the logical necessity of claiming Jesus only died for the elect because if the elect had been chosen individually before Christ died, then He would have only died for those chosen. However, if God chooses individuals based on crediting their faith as righteousness, as 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says, then Christ dying to provide propitiation for mankind, Unlimited Reconciliation, makes sense.
The issue folks is did Jesus die for all mankind or for the elect only. Calvinism's "L" says Christ died for the elect only. This is false doctrine because 1 John 2:2 says Christ became the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, all mankind.
Was it provided for those who had died and gone to Hades? The Bible does not say, but logically no. Was it provided for those who had died and gone to Abraham's bosom? The Bible seems to say yes, see Hebrews 11.
His propitiation then was provided for anyone who obtained approval through faith under the Old Covenant and anyone whose faith God credits as righteousness under the New Covenant.
Having answered your question Jbh28, did Christ die only for the elect according to Calvinism? 12 Strings, watch closely how this simple question is answered!!!
Was it provided for those who had died and gone to Hades? The Bible does not say, but logically no. Was it provided for those who had died and gone to Abraham's bosom? The Bible seems to say yes, see Hebrews 11.
His propitiation then was provided for anyone who obtained approval through faith under the Old Covenant and anyone whose faith God credits as righteousness under the New Covenant.
Having answered your question Jbh28, did Christ die only for the elect according to Calvinism? 12 Strings, watch closely how this simple question is answered!!!
The Reformed TULIP (Revised) is biblically based and is consistent with all scripture including 1 John 2:2.
But the relic from the dark ages, the unreformed TULIP has been shown to be largely mistaken.
Total spiritual inability has been shown to be unbiblical, Matthew 13.
Unconditional election has been shown to be unbiblical, James 2:5, 2 Thessalonians 2:13.
Limited Atonement as defined by Calvinism, has been shown to be unbiblical, 1 John 2:2
Irresistible Grace has been shown to be unbiblical, Matthew 23:13.
But the relic from the dark ages, the unreformed TULIP has been shown to be largely mistaken.
Total spiritual inability has been shown to be unbiblical, Matthew 13.
Unconditional election has been shown to be unbiblical, James 2:5, 2 Thessalonians 2:13.
Limited Atonement as defined by Calvinism, has been shown to be unbiblical, 1 John 2:2
Irresistible Grace has been shown to be unbiblical, Matthew 23:13.
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So Willis my friend......you believe the non elect will call upon the Lord???
if you can get any non -elect to believe , you are good Willis.:laugh:
All who openly confess Christ make their calling and election...sure.
convicted1
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The point I was trying to make is that the non-elect won't call upon the name of the Lord, not that they can't. They choose not to call to call upon Him, not that they can't.
Oh Oh....Im walking away from this 4 it gets ugly!:tongue3:
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