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TULIP -
- Thread starter Salty
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If you don't agree with all five, you will end up contradicting yourself. The five all tie together to express the Sovereignty of God.
Definite Redemption sounds better than 'Limited,' but TUDIP isn't quite as catchy as TULIP.
2 DIP ??? SOUNDS something like a double immersion????
...so...Baptist then...[emoji10]
37818
Well-Known Member
Without an unlimited atonement, no one can know they have any part in the limited atonement. I hold that it is not an either or, but both. Unlimited for the perishing, in which they will not be saved by it, but judged because of it. Limited in that only God's elect are saved by it. Romans 8:34.
I believe like Kentucky does... But don't think for a minute T.U.L.I.P stands alone, there is also
ARMINIANISM: DAISY*
D: Diminished depravity – Humanity is depraved, but God uses prevenient grace to restore man’s ability to respond to Him.
A: Abrogated election – God bases His election on His foreknowledge of those who freely choose Him.
I: Impersonal atonement – Christ died for everyone, making salvation possible for everyone.
S: Sedentary grace – God calls everyone to salvation, but many freely reject it.
Y: Yieldable justification – The saved can fall from grace and lose their salvation.
*The DAISY acronym is much harder to pin down as there are several different versions (I’ll discuss another when analyzing Arminianism). Also, many Arminians do not like the acrostic. Several versions of DAISY have been pushed by Calvinists as caricatures of Arminian theology. Many Calvinists seem to also enjoy making the lame joke that the Arminian flower is a daisy because they pull the petals off saying, “God loves me. He loves me not.”
MOLINISM: ROSES*
R: Radical depravity – Every aspect of humanity is depraved, but we are not always as bad as we could be.
O: Overcoming grace – God’s grace is persistent in the life of the believer, but it can be resisted.
S: Sovereign election – God desires the salvation of all, but our salvation is based on His choice not ours.
E: Eternal life – God grants believers eternal security in their salvation.
S: Singular redemption – Christ died sufficiently for all people, but efficiently only for the saved.
Oh and before I forget it, there is a new kid on the block called W.H.E.A.T
W: Wounded Children
H: Human Solidarity
E: Exhaustive Reconciliation
A: Absolute Grace
T: Transformative Love
So now you brethren can compare all these to T.U.L.I.P, but can you brethren answer one question for me, it seems to me, we are trying to get back to the garden?... Brother Glen
Are we stardust...? (hint: think Joni Mitchell and Woodstock)I believe like Kentucky does... But don't think for a minute T.U.L.I.P stands alone, there is also
ARMINIANISM: DAISY*
D: Diminished depravity – Humanity is depraved, but God uses prevenient grace to restore man’s ability to respond to Him.
A: Abrogated election – God bases His election on His foreknowledge of those who freely choose Him.
I: Impersonal atonement – Christ died for everyone, making salvation possible for everyone.
S: Sedentary grace – God calls everyone to salvation, but many freely reject it.
Y: Yieldable justification – The saved can fall from grace and lose their salvation.
*The DAISY acronym is much harder to pin down as there are several different versions (I’ll discuss another when analyzing Arminianism). Also, many Arminians do not like the acrostic. Several versions of DAISY have been pushed by Calvinists as caricatures of Arminian theology. Many Calvinists seem to also enjoy making the lame joke that the Arminian flower is a daisy because they pull the petals off saying, “God loves me. He loves me not.”
MOLINISM: ROSES*
R: Radical depravity – Every aspect of humanity is depraved, but we are not always as bad as we could be.
O: Overcoming grace – God’s grace is persistent in the life of the believer, but it can be resisted.
S: Sovereign election – God desires the salvation of all, but our salvation is based on His choice not ours.
E: Eternal life – God grants believers eternal security in their salvation.
S: Singular redemption – Christ died sufficiently for all people, but efficiently only for the saved.
Oh and before I forget it, there is a new kid on the block called W.H.E.A.T
W: Wounded Children
H: Human Solidarity
E: Exhaustive Reconciliation
A: Absolute Grace
T: Transformative Love
So now you brethren can compare all these to T.U.L.I.P, but can you brethren answer one question for me, it seems to me, we are trying to get back to the garden?... Brother Glen
Humble Disciple
Active Member
If your apartment building was burning down, and a firefighter died while saving you but not your neighbor, what would your proper response be?
Should you gripe and grumble about how unfair it was that the firefighter gave up his life for you, but not your neighbor? Or should you be thankful for his sacrifice?
If you are among God’s elect, then Jesus suffered the full weight of His wrath in payment of your sins. He willingly died so that you’d have eternal life. There was no way, in your spiritual deadness, that you could save yourself.
There is nothing unfair about God’s sovereignty in election. (Romans 9:21) No one who desires to be saved will be turned away. (John 6:37) If you sincerely care about your salvation, that’s a sign you are among God’s elect.
It’s profoundly humbling to believe that God chose you, irrespective of any merit on your part whatsoever, not even your free-willed efforts to believe or disbelieve, and the proper response is love and obedience. (John 6:44)
If you truly care about the salvation of the lost, you should support evangelism, since the preaching of the Gospel is the means God has ordained to awaken faith in His elect. Some of the greatest missionaries have been Calvinists.
Should you gripe and grumble about how unfair it was that the firefighter gave up his life for you, but not your neighbor? Or should you be thankful for his sacrifice?
If you are among God’s elect, then Jesus suffered the full weight of His wrath in payment of your sins. He willingly died so that you’d have eternal life. There was no way, in your spiritual deadness, that you could save yourself.
There is nothing unfair about God’s sovereignty in election. (Romans 9:21) No one who desires to be saved will be turned away. (John 6:37) If you sincerely care about your salvation, that’s a sign you are among God’s elect.
It’s profoundly humbling to believe that God chose you, irrespective of any merit on your part whatsoever, not even your free-willed efforts to believe or disbelieve, and the proper response is love and obedience. (John 6:44)
If you truly care about the salvation of the lost, you should support evangelism, since the preaching of the Gospel is the means God has ordained to awaken faith in His elect. Some of the greatest missionaries have been Calvinists.
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Ah Austin... I was thinking more in the line of Iron Butterfly... In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida... And Woodstock happened after I returned from Vietnam as a Marine and you were just a gleam in your Daddy's eye... Brother Glen
Ah Austin... I was thinking more in the line of Iron Butterfly... In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida... And Woodstock happened after I returned from Vietnam as a Marine and you were just a gleam in your Daddy's eye... Brother Glen
Just for the record...I was more than a gleam, but less than a man. You may have bunked with one of my uncle's over in Nam. I still have the jacket one of them sent me from Saigon.
37818
Well-Known Member
If so, that is a hopeless delusion.
God is going to give us the New Heaven and the New Earth. Revelation 21:27.
Woodstock was the first thing that came to mind (but the Crosby, Stills, and Nash cover).
Humble Disciple
Active Member
Here are quotations from the church fathers supporting the five points of Calvinism, most of whom from before the time of Augustine:
Calvinism in the Early Church (The Doctrines of Grace taught by the Early Church Fathers) | Reformed Theology at A Puritan's Mind
Here are Bible verses supporting the five points of Calvinism:
What is Calvinism and is it biblical? What are the five points of Calvinism? | GotQuestions.org
Calvinism isn't some awful, scary thing. It's only called "Calvinism" because John Calvin popularized the doctrines of grace, he did not originate them. It's the same doctrines that Augustine taught against Pelagius and Luther taught against Rome.
This is from Martin Luther's 97 Theses, which he wrote before his 95 Theses:
It is a historical fact that, without the doctrines which we today call Calvinism, there would have never been a Reformation.
It's also a historical fact that there wouldn't be the BFM without the New Hampshire Confession, that there wouldn't be the New Hampshire Confession without the 1689 London Baptist Confession, and there wouldn't be the London Baptist Confession without the Westminster Confession.
Even before the Westminster Confession, there was the 1644 Reformed Baptist Confession:
1644 Baptist Confession of Faith - Wikipedia
Calvinism in the Early Church (The Doctrines of Grace taught by the Early Church Fathers) | Reformed Theology at A Puritan's Mind
Here are Bible verses supporting the five points of Calvinism:
What is Calvinism and is it biblical? What are the five points of Calvinism? | GotQuestions.org
Calvinism isn't some awful, scary thing. It's only called "Calvinism" because John Calvin popularized the doctrines of grace, he did not originate them. It's the same doctrines that Augustine taught against Pelagius and Luther taught against Rome.
This is from Martin Luther's 97 Theses, which he wrote before his 95 Theses:
It is a historical fact that, without the doctrines which we today call Calvinism, there would have never been a Reformation.
It's also a historical fact that there wouldn't be the BFM without the New Hampshire Confession, that there wouldn't be the New Hampshire Confession without the 1689 London Baptist Confession, and there wouldn't be the London Baptist Confession without the Westminster Confession.
Even before the Westminster Confession, there was the 1644 Reformed Baptist Confession:
1644 Baptist Confession of Faith - Wikipedia
old regular
Active Member
I agree with all five :
- Total Depravity
- Unconditional Election
- Limited Atonement
- Irresistible Grace
- Perseverance of the Saints {because they are preserved in Christ }
- Status