TULIP -

[AustinC]

This one?

This one...by Joni Mitchell...

 

[kyredneck]

This one...by Joni Mitchell...

I was asking @JonC which Crosby, Stills, and Nash album he was referring to...

 

[Van]

I believe the TULI of the TULIP are false doctrines, obviously unbiblical, as I have demonstrated many times. I believe once saved always saved, which is a biblical truth similar to the P.

 

[George Antonios]

I believe the TULI of the TULIP are false doctrines, obviously unbiblical, as I have demonstrated many times. I believe once saved always saved, which is a biblical truth similar to the P.

I reject all 5 because Perseverance of the saints is not truly Eternal Security.

 

[37818]

I reject all 5 because Perseverance of the saints is not truly Eternal Security.

Unless "Perseverance of the saints" is do to the "Eternal Security" it is not "Perseverance of the saints."

 

[JonC]

This one?

Yes, Déjà Vu. C,S, & N's cover was released before Mitchell's. It is my favorite version.

 

[kyredneck]

Yes, Déjà Vu. C,S, & N's cover was released before Mitchell's. It is my favorite version.

C, S, N,.... & Y

 

[AustinC]

I was asking @JonC which Crosby, Stills, and Nash album he was referring to...

I understand. All versions from CSN are inferior to Joni Mitchell's version.

 

[Van]

I reject all 5 because Perseverance of the saints is not truly Eternal Security.

Yes, the two doctrines are similar but definitely not the same.

 

[AustinC]

Yes, Déjà Vu. C,S, & N's cover was released before Mitchell's. It is my favorite version.

Joni Mitchell wrote it and gave it to CSN to record. CSN botched it and thus didn't fully convey what Mitchell was saying. It reminds me of Paul Simon's "Boy in the Bubble" which is upbeat and thus the listener misses the lyrics. I prefer Peter Gabriel's copy, which conveys the seriousness of the song.

 

[thomas15]

Is it possible for an individual to confess that Christ is the Son of God and not be of the elect?

 

[JonC]

Joni Mitchell wrote it and gave it to CSN to record. CSN botched it and thus didn't fully convey what Mitchell was saying. It reminds me of Paul Simon's "Boy in the Bubble" which is upbeat and thus the listener misses the lyrics. I prefer Peter Gabriel's copy, which conveys the seriousness of the song.

I like CSN's better (and Paul Simon's Boy in the Bubble). But I also like hearing the original (writers) version. For example, I love hearing Bob Dylan sing All Along the Watchtower, but prefer Hendrix's rendition. I never could decide on John Prine vs Bonnie Raitt on Angel from Montgomery.

 

[AustinC]

I like CSN's better (and Paul Simon's Boy in the Bubble). But I also like hearing the original (writers) version. For example, I love hearing Bob Dylan sing All Along the Watchtower, but prefer Hendrix's rendition. I never could decide on John Prine vs Bonnie Raitt on Angel from Montgomery.

To each their own. I also prefer Bruce Springsteen's "Blinded by the Light" to the Manfred Mann version.

 

[George Antonios]

Unless "Perseverance of the saints" is do to the "Eternal Security" it is not "Perseverance of the saints."

Even then, I personally would not agree.
A true believer in the church age can still fall back from faith permanently and still be born again and wake up in heaven.
Lordship salvation is not a true doctrine for the church age dispensation.

 

[Van]

Is it possible for an individual to confess that Christ is the Son of God and not be of the elect?

Good question! What does the word "confess" mean. To publicly profess? The folks of Matthew 7 did that. Or is the idea to actually believe from the heart that Christ is the Son of God? See Titus 1:16 And what about "of the elect?" Does that mean someone who has been individually chosen for salvation based on God crediting their faith as righteousness. Or is the idea, someone willing to be saved but not chosen, because their faith was rejected by God?

 

[thomas15]

Seems to me if one is as the reformed say "elect" to salvation then all one would have to do is confess Christ is the Son of God one single time...bam!!!

On the other hand if not elect they could confess Christ is the Son of God until the cows come home and still be dammed.

 

[Yeshua1]

Which of the Five do you agree?

TULIP: 5-Point Calvinism Explained

all of them!

 

[Yeshua1]

If you don't agree with all five, you will end up contradicting yourself. The five all tie together to express the Sovereignty of God.

There is a Logic and consistency to them, and 4 pointers are what RC Sproul labeled"confused calvinists"

 

[Yeshua1]

Here are quotations from the church fathers supporting the five points of Calvinism, most of whom from before the time of Augustine:
Calvinism in the Early Church (The Doctrines of Grace taught by the Early Church Fathers) | Reformed Theology at A Puritan's Mind

Here are Bible verses supporting the five points of Calvinism:
What is Calvinism and is it biblical? What are the five points of Calvinism? | GotQuestions.org

Calvinism isn't some awful, scary thing. It's only called "Calvinism" because John Calvin popularized the doctrines of grace, he did not originate them. It's the same doctrines that Augustine taught against Pelagius and Luther taught against Rome.

This is from Martin Luther's 97 Theses, which he wrote before his 95 Theses:


It is a historical fact that, without the doctrines which we today call Calvinism, there would have never been a Reformation.

It's also a historical fact that there wouldn't be the BFM without the New Hampshire Confession, that there wouldn't be the New Hampshire Confession without the 1689 London Baptist Confession, and there wouldn't be the London Baptist Confession without the Westminster Confession.

Even before the Westminster Confession, there was the 1644 Reformed Baptist Confession:
1644 Baptist Confession of Faith - Wikipedia

Some Baptists still prefer that to the 1689!

 

[thomas15]

And yet in Isaiah 45:4 The Lord calls the Sons of Abraham through Jacob the elect although they do not hear his voice.