TULIP -

[1689Dave]

Guess what Dave I was convicted and drawn to Christ and then I believed. Yes I had a choice i didn't have to pay attention. I could have walked away. I always did before then. You see by the preaching of the word I was convinced of Christ and believed. Belief is a requirement. Yet you Dave was saved with out believing first. why you were just made saved so you could believe before the foundation of the world. You were saved by your so called election. No matter what you would have been saved. What you claimed happened to you means you were forced even though you still hated God. You were saved with out faith.
I think the only reason you post to me is that you want to hear a witness of Salvation. No matter what Dave all you have to do is get on your knees and repent, believe and ask the Lord to save you. If you do this you'll know the truth
MB

You don't understand how it works. The New Birth is a new person that can not live in sin. It's like if God changes a cat into a dog, the new creature will be a dog. The will never enters into it. You need to grasp this.

 

[AustinC]

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

The New Testament begins after the death of Christ. The gospels are mainly Old Testament doctrine. Including the Sermon on the Mount.

Are you meaning Old Covenant (Sinai Covenant) and New Covenant (established by Jesus in the revised Passover meal in the upper room? I would agree.
In Matthew 5-7 (the Sermon on the Mount) we see Jesus address the fact that salvation was always by grace through faith when he gives us the beatitudes. After the beatitudes, Jesus switches to show what one must do if one is to keep the law. Jesus tells us that we must be more righteous than the Pharisees when the people wonder how they could ever be saved by keeping the law. In the sermon, Jesus is correcting the failed teaching of the Pharisees and reminding the people that God saves by grace through faith.

 

[MB]

You don't understand how it works. The New Birth is a new person that can not live in sin. It's like if God changes a cat into a dog, the new creature will be a dog. The will never enters into it. You need to grasp this.

Thats nice your living a sinless life. Dave i Will never be a Calvinist. I'm already saved and the Lord watches over me to keep me from being deceived .
If it was really is as you say then I couldn't do any thing about it anyways. Thank God it isn't as you say.
MB

 

[37818]

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

The New Testament begins after the death of Christ. The gospels are mainly Old Testament doctrine. Including the Sermon on the Mount.

As I am understand your view. All teachings regardless prior to the death burial and resurrection are Old Testament. We do not agree.

 

[1689Dave]

Thats nice your living a sinless life. Dave i Will never be a Calvinist. I'm already saved and the Lord watches over me to keep me from being deceived .
If it was really is as you say then I couldn't do any thing about it anyways. Thank God it isn't as you say.
MB

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

You are espousing the heresy of antinomianism. And do not seek God's righteousness instead of your own.

 

[tyndale1946]

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

You are espousing the heresy of antinomianism. And do not seek God's righteousness instead of your own.

Can the Christ in you sin?... Brother Glen

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

 

[MB]

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

You are espousing the heresy of antinomianism. And do not seek God's righteousness instead of your own.

Paul said' Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. You have God coming to you instead saving you then you believe. You have it backwards Dave. You need to take what Paul says seriously instead of twisting it around like JW's do.
MB

 

[kyredneck]

I believe points 4 & 5 should not focus on grace forcing good works. But instead Regeneration by grace producing good works according to our new nature. Cats do what cats do, dogs do what dogs do. The born again do what love does.

30 Jesus made answer and said, A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho; and he fell among robbers, who both stripped him and beat him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31 And by chance a certain priest was going down that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32 And in like manner a Levite also, when he came to the place, and saw him, passed by on the other side.
33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he was moved with compassion,
34 and came to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring on them oil and wine; and he set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35 And on the morrow he took out two shillings, and gave them to the host, and said, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, I, when I come back again, will repay thee.
36 Which of these three, thinkest thou, proved neighbor unto him that fell among the robbers?
37 And he said, He that showed mercy on him. And Jesus said unto him, Go, and do thou likewise. Lk 10

 

[1689Dave]

Can the Christ in you sin?... Brother Glen

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Can Christ sin? How can we sin if we have his imputed righteousness? We cannot sin any more than He can. But we have our own meager righteousness that is an attempt to be like Him in thanks for saving us. But it can never save. And it molests us day and night until we die and the earth dissolves it. That is why we pray "lead us not into temptation".

 

[1689Dave]

Paul said' Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. You have God coming to you instead saving you then you believe. You have it backwards Dave. You need to take what Paul says seriously instead of twisting it around like JW's do.
MB

You cannot "choose the real Christ" unless you are first saved by grace. It then happens as God reveals Him to you.

 

[MB]

You cannot "choose the real Christ" unless you are first saved by grace. It then happens as God reveals Him to you.

Show proof from scripture. I'm not talking about what you think says it, but show the truth, word for word from scripture.. I've shown you how Paul explained it and what He says is not what you claim.Is Paul a liar?
It's funny you think God saves you with out faith yet you cannot show this in scripture. This proves you are deceived about it..
MB

 

[1689Dave]

Show proof from scripture. I'm not talking about what you think says it, but show the truth, word for word from scripture.. I've shown you how Paul explained it and what He says is not what you claim.Is Paul a liar?
It's funny you think God saves you with out faith yet you cannot show this in scripture. This proves you are deceived about it..
MB

“And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.” Matthew 16:17 (KJV 1900)

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)

“For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.” 1 Corinthians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900)

“But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” 2 Corinthians 4:3–4 (KJV 1900)

 

[rockytopva]

It’s not that I disagree with the Calvin mindset as much as it is the demonic like spirit behind the man… Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. - Revelation 3:4

Did John Calvin defile his garments in toasting Michael Servetus?

“Neither God nor his Spirit have counselled such an action. Christ did not treat those who negated him that way.” - Italian poet Camillo Renato on the Servetus execution

“To kill a man is not to protect a doctrine, but it is to kill a man.” - French humanist Sébastien Chateillon on the Servetus execution

“I consider it a serious matter to kill men because they are in error on some question of scriptural interpretation, when we know that even the elect ones may be led astray into error.” - Michael Servetus

In 1908 a monument to Servetus was erected in the French city of Annemasse, some three miles [5 km] from the spot where he died. An inscription reads: “Michel Servetus, . . . geographer, physician, physiologist, contributed to the welfare of humanity by his scientific discoveries, his devotion to the sick and the poor, and the indomitable independence of his intelligence and his conscience. . . . His convictions were invincible. He made a sacrifice of his life for the cause of the truth.”

And to try to bail himself out of hot water Calvin says... "Whoever shall maintain that wrong is done to heretics and blasphemers in punishing them makes himself an accomplice in their crime and guilty as they are. There is no question here of man's authority; it is God who speaks, and clear it is what law he will have kept in the church, even to the end of the world. Wherefore does he demand of us a so extreme severity, if not to show us that due honor is not paid him, so long as we set not his service above every human consideration, so that we spare not kin, nor blood of any, and forget all humanity when the matter is to combat for His glory."

It seemed like Calvin himself would pay for such criminal deeds as his health receded in his fifties.

Fatally ill, and with blood flowing from his mouth, the 54 year-old pastor-theologian was carried to Saint Pierre in a chair. He was a man acquainted with pain. He suffered from terrible hemorrhoids, asthma, kidney stones, pulmonary tuberculosis, and gout. Fever was a consistent companion, and now he had ruptured blood vessels in his lungs due to his violent coughing spells. This same month he wrote of his tribulations to the doctors of Montpellier:

"But at that time [20 years ago] I was not attacked by gout, knew nothing of the stone or the gravel, was not tormented with the gripings of colic nor afflicted with piles nor threatened with haemorrhages. At present all these enemies charge me like troops. As soon as I recovered from a quartan fever, I was taken with severe and acute pains in my calves, which, after being partly relieved, returned a second and then third time. At last they turned into a disease of the joints, which spread from my feet to my knees. An ulcer in the haemorrhoid veins long tortured me ..." - John Calvin

I think Calvin messed up big time in having Servetus executed. Possibly even to the extent to his immortal soul.

 

[tyndale1946]

Can Christ sin? How can we sin if we have his imputed righteousness? We cannot sin any more than He can. But we have our own meager righteousness that is an attempt to be like Him in thanks for saving us. But it can never save. And it molests us day and night until we die and the earth dissolves it. That is why we pray "lead us not into temptation".

This was in no way directed to you Dave but to MB, who doesn't care what I say much... I know how you think... Brother Glen

 

[MB]

This was in no way directed to you Dave but to MB, who doesn't care what I say much... I know how you think... Brother Glen

Poor you I just ignore what you say. When have you ever considered what I gave said.
MB

 

[Van]

So what would/did you vote then?

I think I voted for "other answer" and explained my vote in post #23. However, I may have voted for the "P" also, but I do not recall whether I did or not. While the "P" misses the mark (IMHO) it hits closer than "Easy Believism."

 

[tyndale1946]

Poor you I just ignore what you say. When have you ever considered what I gave said.
MB

I know you do, just two stubborn bullheaded brethren!... I consider what everyone says, I just disagree sometimes... Don't you?... Brother Glen

 

[rockytopva]

It’s not that I disagree with the Calvin mindset as much as it is the demonic like spirit behind the man… Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. - Revelation 3:4

Did John Calvin defile his garments in toasting Michael Servetus?

“Neither God nor his Spirit have counselled such an action. Christ did not treat those who negated him that way.” - Italian poet Camillo Renato on the Servetus execution

“To kill a man is not to protect a doctrine, but it is to kill a man.” - French humanist Sébastien Chateillon on the Servetus execution

“I consider it a serious matter to kill men because they are in error on some question of scriptural interpretation, when we know that even the elect ones may be led astray into error.” - Michael Servetus

In 1908 a monument to Servetus was erected in the French city of Annemasse, some three miles [5 km] from the spot where he died. An inscription reads: “Michel Servetus, . . . geographer, physician, physiologist, contributed to the welfare of humanity by his scientific discoveries, his devotion to the sick and the poor, and the indomitable independence of his intelligence and his conscience. . . . His convictions were invincible. He made a sacrifice of his life for the cause of the truth.”

And to try to bail himself out of hot water Calvin says... "Whoever shall maintain that wrong is done to heretics and blasphemers in punishing them makes himself an accomplice in their crime and guilty as they are. There is no question here of man's authority; it is God who speaks, and clear it is what law he will have kept in the church, even to the end of the world. Wherefore does he demand of us a so extreme severity, if not to show us that due honor is not paid him, so long as we set not his service above every human consideration, so that we spare not kin, nor blood of any, and forget all humanity when the matter is to combat for His glory."

It seemed like Calvin himself would pay for such criminal deeds as his health receded in his fifties.

Fatally ill, and with blood flowing from his mouth, the 54 year-old pastor-theologian was carried to Saint Pierre in a chair. He was a man acquainted with pain. He suffered from terrible hemorrhoids, asthma, kidney stones, pulmonary tuberculosis, and gout. Fever was a consistent companion, and now he had ruptured blood vessels in his lungs due to his violent coughing spells. This same month he wrote of his tribulations to the doctors of Montpellier:

"But at that time [20 years ago] I was not attacked by gout, knew nothing of the stone or the gravel, was not tormented with the gripings of colic nor afflicted with piles nor threatened with haemorrhages. At present all these enemies charge me like troops. As soon as I recovered from a quartan fever, I was taken with severe and acute pains in my calves, which, after being partly relieved, returned a second and then third time. At last they turned into a disease of the joints, which spread from my feet to my knees. An ulcer in the haemorrhoid veins long tortured me ..." - John Calvin

I think Calvin messed up big time in having Servetus executed. Possibly even to the extent to his immortal soul.

I am a supporter of the bbnradio.org, who will sometimes have a speaker speaking Calvin things. Which, I feel any of the TULIP can be presented truthfully. But…

13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. - James 3

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. - Galatians 5

Variance - éris, er'-is; of uncertain affinity; a quarrel, i.e. (by implication) wrangling:—contention, debate, strife, variance.

Quarreling is a spirit that resides in the flesh. And if such quarreling is turning to bloodshed I would question the origins of such spirit… Even though the mind is in the Bible.

 

[Van]

Definite Redemption sounds better than 'Limited,' but TUDIP isn't quite as catchy as TULIP.

I know a dog named "DIPSTICK"

 

[AustinC]

You don't understand how it works. The New Birth is a new person that can not live in sin. It's like if God changes a cat into a dog, the new creature will be a dog. The will never enters into it. You need to grasp this.

Thats nice your living a sinless life. Dave i Will never be a Calvinist. I'm already saved and the Lord watches over me to keep me from being deceived .
If it was really is as you say then I couldn't do any thing about it anyways. Thank God it isn't as you say.
MB

Proof of your poor reading comprehension. (See bolded print)
Note that 1689Dave does not say he lives a sinless life, yet that is what you declare he has stated. Your comprehension is poor.