Two views of being saved

[37818]

It is by works if you can reject the faith. This also means you believed you could accept the faith. Both are merit/demerit based sides of the same coin. This is why free will teaching is a false teaching, yet God still uses a lie to save some.

No one merits salvation through faith in the truth, whether one thinks salvation once had can be lost or not. There are a number of views on both sides of those two views.

 

[1689Dave]

I am not a universalist. If universalism was true, it would not matter.

Now the two views hold salvation is by grace, not the works.

The second view holds that one can leave the faith. The first view holds once one believes and is saved, one will not leave, because God keeps them.

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

 

[SavedByGrace]

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

This does not mean that Christians are sinless, but as the Greek has it, should not continue in sin as a life style

 

[utilyan]

Point 1 is biblical, while point 2 are Catholics and ever other Ism!

We Catholics disagree with point 1 and 2.

We choose point 3. TRINITY.

3) Trust God so much as to not even bother to check.


This idolatry and obsession of Salvation, we kick it to the curb, our priority is LOVING GOD, LOVING NEIGHBOR.

It would be a INSULT if I were to get my hands on any "assurance" "guarantee" or any other leverage over MY FATHER, MY FATHER when I say it I MEAN IT THAT IS MY FATHER!

Don't you ever try to toss some kind of protection against God my way. Religions, books, creeds, how to survive God manuals.

All I hear is here is this religion and belief to protect you from God. Salvation, how to get to heaven, Whats in it for #1 me me me.

We need to switch from this selfish and fear motivated approach. That is your FATHER you are talking about.

How about we just rely on God to protect us from religion & beliefs, even protect me from "salvation".

 

[37818]

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

1 John 3:4, "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."
Romans 4:15, "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."
Romans 6:14, "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."
Galatians 5:4, "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."
Galatians 2:21, " I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."
Romans 3:19, "Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God."
James 2:10, "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."
Galatians 3:24-25, "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."
1 John 3:6, "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."
John 15:6, "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

 

[37818]

This does not mean that Christians are sinless, but as the Greek has it, should not continue in sin as a life style

Please carefully read and understand the texts in my reply post #65.

 

[AustinC]

No one merits salvation through faith in the truth, whether one thinks salvation once had can be lost or not. There are a number of views on both sides of those two views.

Ephesians 2:4-9

But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

 

[Scott Downey]

I like John Owen. I modernized his Death of Death logic quote to make it easier to grasp. Here's a sample.

The Father imposed His wrath due unto, and the Son underwent punishment for, either:

All the sins of all men.

All the sins of some men, or

Some of the sins of all men.

In which case it may be said:

That if the last be true, all men have some sins to answer for, and so, none are saved.

That if the second be true, then Christ, in their stead suffered for all the sins of all the elect in the whole world, and this is the truth.

But if the first be the case, why are not all men free from the punishment due unto their sins?

You answer, "Because of unbelief."

I ask, Is this unbelief a sin, or is it not? If it be, then Christ suffered the punishment due unto it, or He did not. If He did, why must that hinder them more than their other sins for which He died?

If He did not, He did not die for all their sins!"

All the sins of some men, agrees with scripture

'as in HE bore the sins of many' Many here does not mean 'all'. IT does mean a great multitude, who are those saved.

 

[Scott Downey]

Isaiah writing of the grace we would receive, we being those who get saved.
The Messiah shall justify many, for HE shall bear their iniquities...do you see the connection here?
If HE did not bear their iniquities, they are not justified. Meaning those who are not justified by Him, he did not bear their iniquities in His body on the tree.
Their sins, which are many, are not forgiven them.

Isaiah 53:11-12
New King James Version

11 He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied.
By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many,
For He shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great,
And He shall divide the spoil with the strong,
Because He poured out His soul unto death,
And He was numbered with the transgressors,
And He bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors.


Peter, not writing to the world here, says HE bore our sins.
1 Peter 2:24
who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.

1 Peter 1:9-11
New King James Version

9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.
10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you,
11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.