Unable to Believe the “Foolish” Gospel

[Dave G]

The Bible says in Mark that Jesus loved the young man.

Yes, it does.
However, we know from God's word that the rich young ruler was of national Israel and fell under the covenant that God made with the nation...
A covenant of blessings and cursings, merit and demerit; A covenant of earthly works, which they were still under ( and obilgated to honor God under ) up until Jesus went to the cross and the veil of the temple was rent in two.

In other words, the Lord loved him for the sake of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob...as He does all of Israel, in the earthly sense.


Scarlett ( are you Jane on another forum? ),
God eternally loves His children ( and only His children ), those that He has caused to be born from above with new hearts and new minds after the heart and mind of their Saviour Jesus Christ.
Like David, they are people after God's own heart.

They are His workmanship, the ones whom He has created in Christ Jesus ( Ephesians 2 ) and made vessels of mercy ( Romans 9 ), everlastingly and chosen in Christ from the foundation of the world ( Ephesians 1 ).

 

[Dave G]

Brother, I truly don't mean to bother you, but you didn't answer the question. What about Cain and the Rich Young Ruler?

@Scarlett O.
To answer your question ( and not to answer it in @Dougcho's place ),
We know from God's word that Cain was "of the wicked one" and slew his brother ( 1 John 3 )..
In the Scriptures, anyone who is "of the wicked one ( Satan ) is not one of God's elect.

I also see that if Jesus would have loved the rich young ruler as one of the ones that the Father gave Him to save, then He would not have answered him according to the wrong question that he was asking.
That "wrong question" the rich young ruler asked, was this:

" ...Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?" ( Matthew 19:16 )
"... Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? " ( Mark 10:17 ).

Instead of recognizing Him as Lord, and instead of realizing that there wasn't anything that he could do to merit eternal life, he was asking the Lord Jesus based on what all men see God as doing...
Rewarding people for their efforts to gain His grace from His hand...which the Bible tells us is impossible to do.

This is not how we as men and women actually gain His favor;
It's the complete opposite.
For example, Scripture tells us:

" There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death." ( Proverbs 14:12 ).

That "end thereof that are the ways of death" ( the spiritually dead ) way is merit, or "works".

 

[Dave G]

@Scarlett O:
The thing that people do naturally, in the spiritual deadness of our hearts and minds, is to seek God by works, which is exactly what the Pharisees did.
This is exactly what the rich young ruler was making the mistake of ...

And what did the Lord do?

He answered him according to the Law, and according to the wrong question that He asked, which is His right and prerogative to do...
To have mercy on one and not another.

God's word says that He reveals Himself to some and not to others ( Matthew 11:25-27 ).
He blinds some and not others ( Matthew 16, John 12, Romans 11 ).
That He has mercy on whom He will, and hardens whom He will ( Exodus 33, Romans 9 ).

That is why we as believers in Christ Jesus, those to whom the Saviour is spiritually ( and by the word of God ) revealed, recognize this truth:

" not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 that being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. " ( Titus 3:5-7 ).

That's grace...the total absence of works;
To be the recipient of an eternal relationship with God ( outside of the everlasting fire that we righteously deserve ), and none of us had anything to do with being saved and one of God's elect.


...and if you've truly and from the heart believed on Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, then all of this is for you and pertains to you.

 

[DaveXR650]

So what about the rich young ruler? The Bible says in Mark that Jesus loved the young man. Meaning to me, that Jesus wanted him to be in holiness, righteousness, and obedience.

But, the guy, when confronted with the concept of loving others after living in obedience to God, he bolted.

According to you, I guess Jesus just didn't love him enough. Or at least the Father didn't at all.

And what about Cain. God gave him FOUR chances to alter his heart. It wasn't rocket science that God was explaining to Cain. But Cain - he rejected God's call.

Was God just joking around with Cain?

I think the question is this. If you are going to literally say faith itself is directly given to you, then what does the acceptance of this look like? In other words, is there any purpose for the conversations and interactions we see in scripture like Scarlett's mention of Cain and the young man? When you get to the point as a Calvinist where you rebuke someone for saying that they heard the gospel and believed it and thus were saved, are you not going too far? Is that not what they did, even if the enlightening grace and conviction came totally as a result of God's grace. Even if you believe the grace involved a direct effect upon the heart and will of the person who was saved?

And would you not admit, as was Spurgeon's experience, even if you realize later through study of scripture that more of it was due to God's grace than you first understood - that still, the mental process for a new believer is to "decide" that they now love God and Christ and do believe and want to follow him?

 

[Scarlett O.]

We know from God's word that Cain was "of the wicked one" and slew his brother ( 1 John 3 )..
In the Scriptures, anyone who is "of the wicked one ( Satan ) is not one of God's elect.

Thank you. I am familiar with all the Bible verses pertaining to Cain.

So when did Cain become Satan's? Before he was made in Eve's womb? After he was born? Whenever it was that God handed Cain over to Satan to possess and to end up in hell, what was the purpose of that?

The Bible says that it is God's will that none should perish. And the Bible says that God says that he takes no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked.

And if Cain belonged to the devil, why did God give him four chances to change? That's what I am asking.

 

[Dave G]

So when did Cain become Satan's? Before he was made in Eve's womb? After he was born? Whenever it was that God handed Cain over to Satan to possess and to end up in hell, what was the purpose of that?

I could tell you the answer to each question in the above, but that wouldn't allow God to answer those things through His word for you personally, would it?
However, the book of Romans has many of the answers that you're looking for, but it doesn't give them in "encapsulated" form. For that one must read all of the Scriptures on the subject.

The Bible says that it is God's will that none should perish.

None of His beloved, I would agree.
Here is the passage I believe you're referring to:

" But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. " ( 2 Peter 3:8-9 )

The way I read this ( but didn't always ), is that God is long-suffering to the "us-ward" ( the beloved from the previous verse ), not willing that any of the "us-ward" should perish, but that all of the "us-ward" should come to repentance.
On a side note, please see the reinforcement of God not willing that any of His people perish:

John 3:16, where God gave His Son so that the "whosoever believeth in Him" should not perish.
John 6:37 where Jesus tells us that all the Father gives to Him will come to Him...and all that come to Him He will in no wise cast out ( think, "outer darkness", or cast out of His presence...i.e. perish ).
John 10:28, where Jesus gives "them" eternal life and they shall never perish.

There are others.

My point is, I think you're reading only what the "verse" says all by itself, and not the verse in context with what He told us previously about the beloved
I did this also, for many years... until relatively recently.

Then one day it hit me...
"Who are the "us-ward"?"

The beloved from verse 8.

 

[Dave G]

And the Bible says that God says that he takes no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked.

I agree, and He does not take any pleasure in the death of the wicked ( Ezekiel 18:32, Ezekiel 33:11 ).
Nevertheless, He will have mercy upon whom He will have mercy ( Exodus 33, Romans 9 ).

And if Cain belonged to the devil, why did God give him four chances to change?

For our learning as believers in Jesus Christ, Scarlett ( Romans 15:4 )...

To show us that people who are unchanged at the heart level by God will never, ever...no matter how many chances He gives them, be willing to change their own wicked hearts and minds and actually repent of their sinful ways.
They may "turn over a new leaf", but ultimately will go back to what they love.

Please see Romans 1:18-32 and what we as a race have become, after God gave us over to what we fell in love with.
Also, read the Psalms and Proverbs...God showed much of this to both David and Solomon, and had them, among others, write about it.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Scarlett O.

So what about the rich young ruler? The Bible says in Mark that Jesus loved the young man. Meaning to me, that Jesus wanted him to be in holiness, righteousness, and obedience.

Then he was an elect, Jesus saved him

 

[Dougcho]

Brother, I truly don't mean to bother you, but you didn't answer the question. What about Cain and the Rich Young Ruler?

All you did was to repeat your Calvinistic views that God created billions of people to burn for eternity. And he hated them while he created them in the womb ergo they will go to hell because they were born to and because God hates them enough not to save them.

I'm sorry, I don't know what happened with every situation.
But, I do know what happened in Lydia's case (Acts 16:14).
God intervened and opened her heart so she could
understand and believe what Paul was preaching about.
Even though she was a very rare case (she was a worshiper of God) ... God had to intervene ... so she could believe in Jesus and the Gospel. If He had to intervene in Lydia's case,
don't you think He needs to intervene for everyone?

Scripture does give several reasons why God chose to save only some people.

God created everything … He owns everything and so He says, “I will do all My pleasure.” (Isaiah 46:10)

“God decided in advance to adopt us into His own family by bringing us to Himself through Jesus Christ. This what He wanted to do and it gave Him great pleasure … a plan to fulfil His own good pleasure.” (Ephesians 1:5-9)

“He does this to make the riches of His glory shine even brighter on those to whom He shows mercy, who were prepared in advance for glory.” (Romans 9:23)

God created everything … He owns everything …
and so He says, “I will do all My pleasure.” (Isaiah 46:10)

 

[Scarlett O.]

I'm sorry, I don't know what happened with every situation.
But, I do know what happened in Lydia's case (Acts 16:14).
God intervened and opened her heart so she could
understand and believe what Paul was preaching about.
Even though she was a very rare case (she was a worshiper of God) ... God had to intervene ... so she could believe in Jesus and the Gospel. If He had to intervene in Lydia's case,
don't you think He needs to intervene for everyone?

Scripture does give several reasons why God chose to save only some people.

God created everything … He owns everything and so He says, “I will do all My pleasure.” (Isaiah 46:10)

“God decided in advance to adopt us into His own family by bringing us to Himself through Jesus Christ. This what He wanted to do and it gave Him great pleasure … a plan to fulfil His own good pleasure.” (Ephesians 1:5-9)

“He does this to make the riches of His glory shine even brighter on those to whom He shows mercy, who were prepared in advance for glory.” (Romans 9:23)

God created everything … He owns everything …
and so He says, “I will do all My pleasure.” (Isaiah 46:10)

Brother, I'm done. You are still not answering the question. What about Cain and the Rich Young Ruler? I won't bother you anymore.

 

[Scarlett O.]

For our learning as believers in Jesus Christ, Scarlett ( Romans 15:4 )...
.

So God was only trying to teach us a lesson? So he was lying to Cain and really did NOT want Cain to "do right and be accepted"?

And the Bible is lying when it says that Jesus loved the rich young ruler?

You can have the last word. I'm done.

 

[Dave G]

So God was only trying to teach us a lesson? So he was lying to Cain and really did NOT want Cain to "do right and be accepted"?

And the Bible is lying when it says that Jesus loved the rich young ruler?

You can have the last word. I'm done.

I wasn't looking for the last word, and I had a feeling that you wouldn't understand my answers.
But I had to try, Scarlett...
And remember, you did ask.

All I did was to honestly answer your questions based on my understanding of the Scriptures.


May God bless you.

 

[Dougcho]

Someone might find this very interesting ...
Years ago, I had 2 similar experiences during the same week:
1 – with my nephew in Ontario
2 – with a waitress in a London hotel
I gave both of them a Gospel tract, and the following morning
they each said, “I tried hard to believe it, but I just can’t.”
I believe this falls into the category of
God having to give the necessary faith to a person
so he/she can believe in Jesus and the Gospel.
Have any of you had a similar experience?

 

[Van]

Yet another thread asserting false unbiblical doctrine. Just read Matthew 13, three of the four soils, indicating three of four types of people, can hear and understand and respond to the gospel.

Yes, a person does need to hear and heed the gospel, and not all people hear it, and many people that hear it, respond inappropriately. But I simply rebut all the false claims of support for total spiritual inability listed in the OP with one verse:

Luke 13:24 NASB
“Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

How could anyone seek to find the narrow door, if they were unable to seek the narrow door. How could those seeking the narrow door not find it if they were being compelled by "Irresistible Grace?"

 

[Brightfame52]

Yet another thread asserting false unbiblical doctrine. Just read Matthew 13, three of the four soils, indicating three of four types of people, can hear and understand and respond to the gospel.

Yes, a person does need to hear and heed the gospel, and not all people hear it, and many people that hear it, respond inappropriately. But I simply rebut all the false claims of support for total spiritual inability listed in the OP with one verse:

Luke 13:24 NASB
“Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

How could anyone seek to find the narrow door, if they were unable to seek the narrow door. How could those seeking the narrow door not find it if they were being compelled by "Irresistible Grace?"

A lost person is unable to believe the Gospel, its hidden from them and is foolishness to them

 

[Dougcho]

But I simply rebut all the false claims of support for total spiritual inability listed in the OP with one verse:
Luke 13:24 NASB
“Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
How could anyone seek to find the narrow door, if they were unable to seek the narrow door. How could those seeking the narrow door not find it if they were being compelled by "Irresistible Grace?"

Perhaps, striving will make it easier for Father God
to choose who He will elect and call.

 

[Van]

Perhaps, striving will make it easier for Father God
to choose who He will elect and call.

Not easier, as God does whatever He desires to do. He is all powerful, and can do whatever He wants.

The premise at issue is whether the lost are innately able to seek God and understand the spiritual milk of the gospel. One well known viewpoint says no, but many others say yes. The well known viewpoint interpreted 1 Corinthians 2:14 to say the lost cannot understand any spiritual thing from the Holy Spirit. However that flies in the face of 1 Corinthians 3:1 where Paul speaks to new born believers as to lost people using spiritual milk. No answer for why Paul would speak using the fundamentals of the gospel to the lost if the lost were unable to understand. No the correct view is the lost cannot understand the things (spiritual solid food (meat) of the Holy Spirit because the person must be indwelt to understand spiritual solid food. However, the gospel is understandable to the lost (unless their heart has been hardened). That is the biblical doctrine.

 

[Dougcho]

Perhaps, striving will make it easier for Father God
to choose who He will elect and call.

OK, your verse seems to stand in opposition
to the dozens in the NT, which testify to the
fact that man who is not born again is just
NOT able to believe in Jesus and the Gospel.
How does one verse negate dozens of others?
C'mon!

 

[Van]

OK, your verse seems to stand in opposition
to the dozens in the NT, which testify to the
fact that man who is not born again is just
NOT able to believe in Jesus and the Gospel.
How does one verse negate dozens of others?
C'mon!

Ok, C'mon, there is not one verse that supports that the lost are unable to seek God and understand the gospel.

Pick one and post it. I will demonstrate it actually provides no support.

 

[Van]

2Co 4:3 -4

And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they will not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

1) How has the gospel message been veiled? There minds were blinded, thus initially able to understand. They were blinded (their hearts were hardened) so they could not see the light. Thus they were "Soil #1" types described in Matthew 13.

2) Who are the ones "perishing?" Those who understood and then rejected the gospel.