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Unconditional Election

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HankD

HankD

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There is one passage which clearly teaches that election is conditional:

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

...after the counsel of His own will.

None of us were there so we don't know the criteria.

Obviously the criteria reflected the fact that we were helpless and hopeless - The reason for the counsel in the first place.

HankD
 
steaver

steaver

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HankD said:
There is one passage which clearly teaches that election is conditional:

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

...after the counsel of His own will.

None of us were there so we don't know the criteria.

Obviously the criteria reflected the fact that we were helpless and hopeless - The reason for the counsel in the first place.

HankD
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And obviously the criteria reflected the fact that we would be given the solution to our helplessness and hopelessness.
 
steaver

steaver

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AresMan said:
Rom 11
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
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"What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear, unto this day." Rom 11

According to Calvinism, all people are born totally spiritually dead to God. They can do nothing but reject Jesus Christ, reject the Word of God, reject God. Unless God first quickens them spiritually, causes a rebirth, they cannot and will not ever believe.

So why would the Scripture say God blinded them for a reason and a purpose if they already had no option to believe anyways?
 
MennoSota

MennoSota

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steaver said:
"What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear, unto this day." Rom 11

According to Calvinism, all people are born totally spiritually dead to God. They can do nothing but reject Jesus Christ, reject the Word of God, reject God. Unless God first quickens them spiritually, causes a rebirth, they cannot and will not ever believe.

So why would the Scripture say God blinded them for a reason and a purpose if they already had no option to believe anyways?
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You have a dilemma with God.

The scriptures are clear that we are all as filthy rags and that none seek God.
Your dilemma is: Either God is loving by choosing some who walk blindly away from him or God is not loving because he willfully blinds those who freely look for him.
Which one is it?
 
steaver

steaver

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MennoSota said:
You have a dilemma with God.

The scriptures are clear that we are all as filthy rags and that none seek God.
Your dilemma is: Either God is loving by choosing some who walk blindly away from him or God is not loving because he willfully blinds those who freely look for him.
Which one is it?
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That would be YOUR dilemma with YOUR own thoughts.

You have not answered my question......
 
steaver

steaver

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steaver said:
So why would the Scripture say God blinded them for a reason and a purpose if they already had no option to believe anyways?
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You gave no answer. Saying it is dilemma with God is not an answer. I wasn't asking God, God already gave us His thoughts, the question is for YOU. You declare no one can believe unless God causes them to believe and this from birth. So the question is challenging your position...

So why would the Scripture say God blinded them for a reason and a purpose if they already had no option to believe anyways?

These are the type of questions which need to be answered before making concrete conclusions upon theologies which well read men and women disagree with. Just to answer every investigative question as if it is a dilemma with God is just a "I refuse to think about what I have decided to embrace and believe". The old "take it up with God" deflection......which is a "I cannot answer and I don't want to think about it because it may upset my world".
 
HankD

HankD

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IMO this debate will continue unabated until He comes in all His glory.

Ecclesiastes 8:17 Then I beheld all the work of God, that a man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun: because though a man labour to seek it out, yet he shall not find it; yea further; though a wise man think to know it, yet shall he not be able to find it.

HankD
 
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