Under Grace or Under Law?

[Brother Bob]

But Bob, The Lord God Almighty created the human body with only one mind. That is why the Scriptures say:
"A double minded man is unstable in all his ways." __________________

There is more scripture misinterpted because of people not realizing there is an inner man and an outward man.

That is why you all can't reconcile the scriptures of:

says without sin is a liar.

born of God cannot sin.

If you always keep in mind as you do about whether its talking to the Jews or all people, that there is an inner man and an outward man. Paul acknowledged it. The scriptures I just gave you acknowledge it for "to be carnal minded is death" but we are not of them according to Paul but of them that "walk after the Spirit".

You have to be able to give an answer to all scripture and when Jesus says " a man born of God cannot sin", then we have to take notice.

A simple scripture that will make you take notice, I hope is "he that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches".

Is that the fleshly ear?

I will write my laws in their hearts and their minds. Is that the fleshly heart?

 

[DHK]

Bob,
We have but one mind. In that I was serious.
Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

But what did Paul mean when he wrote this verse?
When my mind is yielded to Christ I will serve the law of God;
When my mind is yielded to my sin nature I will serve what my carnal nature (flesh) wants me to do.
I have only one mind. The question is: What am I going to do with my mind? Go back one chapter to Romans 6

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
--I will either yield myself to be an obedient servant of the Lord, or a servant to sin. One cannot serve two masters. He must choose. I don't have two minds. I have but one mind, that must choose one of two masters. Which one will I serve. We have only one mind.

Paul described the war that went on within him in chapter 7. It is sometimes called the battle for the mind. It is the new nature of Jesus Christ fighting against the old nature inherited by Adam. They fight for control of the mind. We only have one mind. Are we going to yield our mind to Christ or yield our mind to Satan, the world, or self. Who is our master? I don't have two minds--only one.

2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

The battle is in the mind. With the mind I must bring every thought into captivity and into obedience to Christ.

 

[Brother Bob]

What you going to do with these scriptures then?

Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

Rom 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to [the will of] God.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Scripture plainly says we have a mind of the Spirit and we have a carnal mind. If we are stuck with the carnal mind then we are all lost for the carnal mind is sin against God.

You still did not answer:
"he that hath an ear let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches", is this the fleshly ear.

I will put my laws in their heart and write them in their minds. Is that this heart of mine pumping blood? Is that this carnal mind of mine that is sin against God?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Brother Bob: If you will look at it as Paul did about the inner man and the outward man (flesh), which dwelleth no good thing then you can understand why Jesus said that which is born of God, cannot sin. The flesh sins but does not go too far for we have a keeper and that which is within you is stronger than that which is in the world.
The Scripture plainly teaches that the flesh shall be delivered also. Also, means something has already been delivered from sin and we know of a surety it is not the body for the body has to die.

HP: There are some thorny problems that arise in view of this comment. You make a blanket statement that “the flesh sins” but then modify it just a bit by stating that it does not go too far. You attribute this due to the fact because “we have a keeper and that which is within you is stronger than that which is the world.”

If this is to be accepted as true, one would have to say that whatever is within us cannot be greater than at least some of the flesh, for you admit it sins, and that without exception. That makes the flesh not the Spirit the strongest entity does it not?

How do you rectify your statement in light of the following verse? To “be preserved blameless unto” tells me that those things mentioned, the body, soul, and spirit can indeed be expected to be maintained in a state of holiness 'in this present world,' are they not?

1Th 5:23 ¶ And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Brother Bob]

It is the purpose of God to try our faith by our weakness of the flesh.

1Pe 1:7That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

But not to the point where we sin unto death. If one go astray, He leaves the 99 to go get the 1 so he will not be condemned with the world. "My Grace is suffecient to keep thee".

1Th 5:23 ¶ And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This is why I say we will not sin unto death.

 

[Brother Bob]

You have questions and I will attempt to answer them to my best but not yet have you answered my questions.

It says we have a mind of the Spirit.

It says we have a mind that is carnal.

It says there is an outward man which is flesh.

It says there is an inner man which has a law Paul delighted in.

It says, he that hath an ear let him hear what the spirit saith unto the churches.

It says, I will write my laws in their hearts and their minds. Surely it not this half of a fleshly heart I have?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: The battle is in the mind. With the mind I must bring every thought into captivity and into obedience to Christ.

HP: I am reminded of an old cowboy preacher/evangelist that once said, “Those Calvinists preach real good sometimes, but they have a secret agreement among themselves that it does not mean them.”

 

[Brother Bob]

Nothing secret about what I have said. I just posted scriptures that support everything I said.

Bible plainly says there is a carnal mind and a mind of the Spirit.

At the very least, accept it as scripture. If you have an answer I haven't thought of then I am open to learn.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Brother Bob: Bible plainly says there is a carnal mind and a mind of the Spirit.

HP: Is this not indicating one mind, either formulating intents to selfishness, or the same mind formulating intents of benevolence in accordance to the leadings of the Spirit?

 

[Brother Bob]

I don't think so or we all gonners.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Is it one heart or do we have a fleshly heart and a spiritual heart?

You can't even worship God with a carnal mind.

 

[DHK]

You have questions and I will attempt to answer them to my best but not yet have you answered my questions.

It says we have a mind of the Spirit.

It says we have a mind that is carnal.

1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

Paul says that the Corinthians were carnal because they had given their minds over to carnality. He says that he couldn't speak unto them as spititual because they hadn't grown spiritually, or they had not applied their minds to spiritual things.

It says there is an outward man which is flesh.

This is the old nature; it is simply another expression meaning the same thing.

It says there is an inner man which has a law Paul delighted in.

Paul delighted when his mind was given over to things of God. Sometimes it wasn't. Sometimes he allowed his mind to be given over to the old nature. Rom.7:25 indicates this.

It says, he that hath an ear let him hear what the spirit saith unto the churches.

It says, I will write my laws in their hearts and their minds. Surely it not this half of a fleshly heart I have?

Our fleshly heart is made up of molecules and atoms and has no other purpose but to pump blood through the body. The heart in the Bible is purely a figure of speech. We need to "have an ear" another figure of speech which simply means to listen or listen carefully.
The "flesh" rarely means "body," unless the context dictates it to be so. Flesh as opposed to spiritual means carnal, worldly.
The body that is made up of flesh is made of molecules: atoms--electrons, etc. Inherently it cannot be good or evil. It is the mind that controls the body. The mind is either submitted to carnality or to spiritual things.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Brother Bob: Is it one heart or do we have a fleshly heart and a spiritual heart?

HP: IMHO we have one inner man, either serving the flesh or the Spirit. Scripture states that we cannot serve two masters.

 

[Claudia_T]

ok so the carnal mind is at enmity with the law of God [Romans 8:7]

and in Romans 7 Paul says that with his mind he serves God but in his members they are warring against the law of his mind [Romans 7:23]

he says the law is spiritual but he is carnal [Romans 7:14]

...thats helpful.

 

[Brother Bob]

1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

Paul says that the Corinthians were carnal because they had given their minds over to carnality. He says that he couldn't speak unto them as spititual because they hadn't grown spiritually, or they had not applied their minds to spiritual things.

I did not say we still did not have our carnal mind and these were babes in Christ and needed a little milk. I do that all the time.
Are you really going to apply that to those of us debating on here?

Quote:
It says there is an outward man which is flesh.
This is the old nature; it is simply another expression meaning the same thing.

Rom 7:18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.

That is what I been saying all along that you can't worship God with a carnal mind.

It says there is an inner man which has a law Paul delighted in. Paul delighted when his mind was given over to things of God. Sometimes it wasn't. Sometimes he allowed his mind to be given over to the old nature. Rom.7:25 indicates this.

Rom 8:27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to [the will of] God.

Our fleshly heart is made up of molecules and atoms and has no other purpose but to pump blood through the body. The heart in the Bible is purely a figure of speech. We need to "have an ear" another figure of speech which simply means to listen or listen carefully.
The "flesh" rarely means "body," unless the context dictates it to be so. Flesh as opposed to spiritual means carnal, worldly.
The body that is made up of flesh is made of molecules: atoms--electrons, etc. Inherently it cannot be good or evil. It is the mind that controls the body. The mind is either submitted to carnality or to spiritual things.

This is what scripture says:

Rom 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to [the will of] God.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Scripture plainly says we have a mind of the Spirit and we have a carnal mind. If we are stuck with the carnal mind then we are all lost for the carnal mind is sin against God.

 

[Brother Bob]

ok so the carnal mind is at enmity with the law of God [Romans 8:7]

and in Romans 7 Paul says that with his mind he serves God but in his members they are warring against the law of his mind [Romans 7:23]

he says the law is spiritual but he is carnal [Romans 7:14]

...thats helpful.
__________________
Claudia _T

Simple if you use the following scriptures Claudia.

Rom 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to [the will of] God.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Scripture plainly says we have a mind of the Spirit and we have a carnal mind. If we are stuck with the carnal mind then we are all lost for the carnal mind is sin against God.

 

[Brother Bob]

HP: IMHO we have one inner man, either serving the flesh or the Spirit. Scripture states that we cannot serve two masters.

Ok HP;
Now, do we have an outward man also?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

BB: Now, do we have an outward man also?

HP: One could refer to the physical being, including the sensibilities as the outward man.

 

[Brother Bob]

HP: One could refer to the physical being, including the sensibilities as the outward man.

Now, if you will accept the following scriptures we will be of one mind and one accord.

Rom 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to [the will of] God.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Scripture plainly says we have a mind of the Spirit and we have a carnal mind. If we are stuck with the carnal mind then we are all lost for the carnal mind is sin against God.

 

[Claudia_T]

Bob,

doesnt this go against what you said happens to our bodies?

Romans 8:11: But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob,

doesnt this go against what you said happens to our bodies?

Romans 8:11: But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
__________________
Claudia _T

Goodness no Claudia. It supports it. The inner part hath already been delivered from a dead state of sin unto a lively hope in Christ but the body will receive its change also in the resurrection.

The Spirit of Christ dwelleth in us also, if we been born again.

1Jo 4:12¶No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.