Understanding 2 Thessalonians 2:13

[Van]

There's no faith until one is saved by regeneration. So faith doesn't allow God to do anything, If anything God allows or gives faith. God the Spirit

Here the Calvinist ignores the plain reading of 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and claims it says the opposite.

 

[Van]

Yes it does, it refers to the whole process of Salvation by Grace through Faith, none of it is of ourselves.

Here is a walk back, one Calvinist says or implies faith is a instilled gift, and when proved false, the next Calvinist claims the gift of salvation includes faith. Just another fiction from the dark ages. Note the fact we are chosen "through" or on the basis of faith in the truth is ignored, and the opposite claimed, we were not chosen through faith in the truth, we were chosen then given faith. Folks that is idiotic absurdity, no matter how often posted.

 

[Brightfame52]

BF you never answer questions as that would point out the error of your views.

Did Christ come to seek and to save all the Father wanted to be saved ? Yes or No.

 

[Brightfame52]

Here the Calvinist ignores the plain reading of 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and claims it says the opposite.

Faith to believe the Truth comes from the Sanctifying work of the Spirit, thats when the Spirit saved us Titus 3:5-6

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour

 

[Brightfame52]

Here is a walk back, one Calvinist says or implies faith is a instilled gift,

Faith is part of the salvation by Grace. None of Salvation is of ourselves its all the Gift of God.

 

[Silverhair]

Did Christ come to seek and to save all the Father wanted to be saved ? Yes or No.

Do you have a problem reading BF.

You are very tiring. Your view is not the standard the bible is so when you can respond to what the bible actually says then we can discuss your errant view.

 

[Brightfame52]

Do you have a problem reading BF.

Do you have a problem ?

 

[Brightfame52]

one Calvinist says or implies faith is a instilled gift

Its given by the Spirit, its originally not in the flesh of the natural man

 

[Silverhair]

Do you have a problem ?

Not at all.
I can read the word of God and actually believe it whereas you want to re-imagine what it says as it does not fit your religious view.

I am sorry that you cannot just trust the word of God BF.

What does the bible say BF?
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Joh 3:17 "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

Joh 12:32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.

Act 16:30 ... "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 ... "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, ..."

The answer is obvious and if you are honest you will see what the bible says and reject what your religious theory says.

 

[Brightfame52]

Not at all.

God desires/wills all be saved and come to the truth 1 Tim 2:4

Now Jesus was sent to seek and to save the Lost. So has He successfully sought and saved Lk 19:10 all God the Father desires to be saved ? Yes or no

 

[Silverhair]

God desires/wills all be saved and come to the truth 1 Tim 2:4

Now Jesus was sent to seek and to save the Lost. So has He successfully sought and saved Lk 19:10 all God the Father desires to be saved ? Yes or no

God's desire is that all come to repentance BF or do you not believe what the bible says?
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

So if all do not come to repentance we only have two options

1] God lied and He really does not desire what the scripture says he desired
or
2] man has a choice to make

But as Luk 19:10 "for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost." says Christ came to save the lost.

So who are the lost that God desires to save BF?
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

So we see that all are lost

The risen Christ made salvation possible for the whole world Joh 3:17 "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

That was His mission. The fact not all were saved does not change why Christ came. It just shows that man has to make a choose, what he will do with the son of God. Will he trust in Him or will he reject Him.

 

[David Lamb]

David those that hold to the DoG/TULIP have to twist the word of God for it to fit that view.

"The grace of faith, whereby the elect are enabled to believe to the saving of their souls, is the work of the Spirit of Christ in their hearts,"1

The use of 2Co 4:13 as support is odd as it has belief {faith} prior to his speaking. And then Eph_2:8 which is even clearer that God saves us because we believe.

Your Tulip says one is saved unconditionally but the verses referenced both indicate faith first then salvation.
Plus for the DoG/TULIP to be true you would have to rewrite or ignore a number of verses.

Joh_3:16 ... that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Rom_10:13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Rom_10:9 that if you confess with your mouth, ... and believe in your heart...you will be saved

Act_16:31 ..., “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved,

Rom_3:22 ... the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ

Rom_5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith...
Rom_5:2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand

David I am not saying that calvinists do not believe what I am saying and the bible confirms is that your understanding of the order of salvation is wrong. You are not saved so you will believe but rather believe so you will be saved.

You are only elect when you are in the "Elect One" through faith not before.

I see salvation as unconditional insofar as we don't have to do things to earn it. For example, we are not told that if we read the bible from cover to cover once year, or spend an hour in prayer every day, or give a certain percentage of our income to missionary causes, we will be saved. Belief if a requirement of salvation - that's common sense, as well as biblical, because the idea of desiring salvation, but not believing in the Saviour, just doesn't work.

I do not agree that one only becomes elect when one is in "the Elect One," because the bible says that those who are elect were chosen before the foundation of the earth.

 

[Brightfame52]

God's desire is that all come to repentance BF or do you not believe what the bible says?
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Whoever God wants to be saved it's Christ responsibility to save all of them! Did He send Christ into the world to seek and to save that which was lost?

 

[Brightfame52]

So if all do not come to repentance we only have two options

It's only one option and that's Christ was a failure since as Savior He gives repentance to them He saves Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.