DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
That's OK with me, because I fully understand what the Calvinists taught about this, and how they handled these doctrines. I explained that above in post 77. I'm not asking you or anyone else to change if that is their view.All who come to Him do so because God has already wrought within them [John 3:21]. The natural man, void of the Spirit, will never come to Him [1 Corinthians 2:14].
It is, but you have to read the whole chapter as well as the chapter around it. I dug out my old Scofield Reference Bible and here is what you find as a heading for chapter 9: "IV The Problem of Jewish Unbelief", and then underneath that "God's sovereign wisdom and grace in working out His purpose in spite of the unfaithfulness of Israel". For chapter 10 they have as a subheading "Apparent failure of the promises to Israel explained by their unbelief". And then the heading over verse 10 reads "World-wide outreach of the Gospel; God would have all to be saved". I show you that so you know that what I am saying is not something I just made up. I also have Hodges commentary on Romans and what concerns be is that while he for the most part takes the traditional Calvinist position on the determinism being taught in Romans 9, he does not do what some of you modern Calvinists do.Romans 9 is not about proffering the gospel, it's about the purpose of God according to election, "not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles".
And that is that after reading all the beautiful unfolding of Christian doctrine, probably in more detail than anywhere else in scripture, you guys come to chapter 9 and the only thing you seem to want to camp on is to have God abruptly switching gears and announcing that he's going to sovereignly send some of us to Hell and we have no right to complain about it. While it is true as a bare fact, it is reasonable to ask if that is what is intended, especially when the introduction to chapter 9 is so clearly stated to be addressing a Jewish problem?
No. I am going to ask you one more time, so you don't say "what is the question". Why does it give you so much pleasure to point out to people that God is sovereignly going to send many of them to Hell, no matter what, and that God's only message to them is to make sure they don't dare complain about it. Is that what you think the Gospel is? I'm saying you go far beyond traditional Baptists and far beyond the Calvinists I am familiar with like Owen, Edwards and Bunyan. And if you do think that that is the message, how do you explain the last two verses of chapter 9?