Understanding the 1000yr Reign?

[Brother Bob]

I do not know the particulars (nor do I particularly care to) of Talmudic Judaism. But I do recognize thinly veiled Anti-Semitism. And the site from which you excerpted qualifies. The usage of the term "the Jews" shows this, exactly, for it is intended to be a characterizing of a people in an "us" vs. "them" scenario.

The Lord Jesus Christ was a Jew. The apostles that wrote in the NT were all Jews, wiht the possible exception of Luke (being an Apostle, that is). The prophets that wrote in the OT were all Jews. In fact, with no more than a very few exceptions, namely Luke in the NT, perhaps the author of Job in the OT and perhaps a couple more OT authors, every individual who wrote Scripture was a Jew. None of the writers of Scripture said anything, anywhere, about destroying all the Gentiles just before the Kingdom Age.

Ed

If you think I am anti-Jew, your elevator does not stop on all floors.

I did see one of their Rabbis on TV not long ago, say they welcomed the money from Haggi (sp), but they did not believe in Jesus Christ. He did not say so, but I am led to believe they consider Jesus as a mockery.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Actually, it is YOU that admits to "living in the past" --- the eschatology that was "believed until the past 300 years" I think you said.

Mine lives in the day when we have SEEn God's promises being fulfilled to ISRAEL for 60 years! We can even look into Zech 10 and take note of the development of the situation as we see it today! And it is ALL so that they may receive the kingdom God promised them since Abraham.

Back 300 years ago -- or even 70 years ago -- all this would seem to have been forgotten by God or apply to someone else. But at this point in time, I think people that believe the Bible can see what's really coming. :thumbs:

Again, I would encourage you to question the disconnect you have between physical and spiritual "living waters" and what the implications of you being wrong are. There's really no need to go any further than those passages until you are convicted of you error.

skypair

Your eschatology is just great for Israel and the Jews, but I don't find in anything you posted where the OT prophesied of the coming of Christ and the living waters and the New Covenant to the Gentiles, and then several thousand years later come to Israel.

I don't see in your eschatology anything for the Gentile, but all for Israel and the Jews.

I will stay with the Messiah and the Living water has already come to ALL that believes, and you must believe to be in the resurrection to eternal life. Jesus said "if you die in your sins, where I am you cannot come". That kinda cuts all of your eschatology out and shows it to be what I have said all along, "dead".

I feel sorry for you that you are looking for "living waters" to flow in a land that will pass away with a great noise. You are living in the past, your belief is what the Jews and Israel believe, with you left out of it.

I will give Israel the benefit of the doubt, if they will believe in Jesus Christ, they can go to Heaven, as can all the Gentiles who believe. We will be one people in the Lord and there will not be Jew or Gentile, but children of God.

Your doctrine is based on what has taken place already and what Israel was looking for, when it did not come, Israel lengthen out the time and is still looing for it in 20??, forget the exact year, but seems like its 2047, but not sure.

No wonder you stay on the MK, It is all you know, or think you do, which Israel believes it is for them and not you, and will be a time of rest. According to Israel, you have no salvation.

Jhn 4:10Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Jhn 4:14But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Rev 22:16I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star

Rev 22:17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Rev 22:18¶For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Rev 22:19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book

Come take of the "water of Life", it does not cost you silver or gold.

Rom 8:7Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Daniel

Ezekiel

Zechariah

All speak of a time of peace for Israel, I fail to see where you will be in that eschatology, for you are among those who will be destroyed, according to these books.



BBob,

 

[EdSutton]

If you think I am anti-Jew, your elevator does not stop on all floors.

I don't think this, nor did I imply it. I said the site you copied from contained "thinly veiled Anti-Semitism".

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

I don't think this, nor did I imply it. I said the site you copied from contained "thinly veiled Anti-Semitism".

Ed

I looked at some of its sources.

BBob,

 

[skypair]

Your doctrine is based on what has taken place already and what Israel was looking for, when it did not come,...

Yet you cannot give me literal fulfillments of God's literal promises and prophecies. But I suppose in some theologies, that could be irrelevant.

Israel lengthen out the time and is still looing for it in 20??, forget the exact year, but seems like its 2047, but not sure.

No wonder you stay on the MK, It is all you know, or think you do, which Israel believes it is for them and not you, and will be a time of rest. According to Israel, you have no salvation.

Well, 1) I won't be here and 2) they haven't seen Messiah's kingdom as it was promised to them so it must be in the future sometime.

skypair

 

[Brother Bob]

Yet you cannot give me literal fulfillments of God's literal promises and prophecies. But I suppose in some theologies, that could be irrelevant.

Israel lengthen out the time and is still looing for it in 20??, forget the exact year, but seems like its 2047, but not sure.

Well, 1) I won't be here and 2) they haven't seen Messiah's kingdom as it was promised to them so it must be in the future sometime.

skypair

I spent a large part of the weekend listen to Rabbis teaching on the books you hold to Daniel, Zech, Ezek. and believe me, they sure have a different outlook on what the scripture says than you do.
First they believe our Christ was a liar and a false prophet, if He even existed.
Second, they believe that all the twelve tribes of Israel will be gathered together in that Kingdom you speak of so much, and they will rest for a 1000 years and let the earth replenish itself and therefore be a "new" earth.
Third, they believe the gentiles people such as you and I are as the cattle and will be slaves to them and we have the souls equal to the animal.
Fourth they believe there will be a "world order" and all nations will follow that law.
Fifth, they believe that "their" Messiah will come and sit up in that Kingdom.
Sixth, seems to me that everyone who has been taught what you and the two Ed's teach, should for their own sake, listen to some Jewish Rabbis.
Seventh, where does the books of Daniel, Ezek and Zech prophesy that the Gentiles will live and reign in that Kingdom with Israel?

Also, they consider you as dung for the most part.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

ED; //In all likelihood they were Persian or Babylonian (Chaldee) astrologers and/or sorcerers, who were practitioners of witchcraft, "familiar spirits", magicians, etc.,//

//Is this a myth, supposition, scripture, or Ed Sutton doctrine ???//

Not a myth, best we know, it was the way it happened.

Not a supposition, it is the common word in Greek for the Chaldee House of rulers for the Babylonian Empire referring to //astrologers and/or sorcerers//, Wise Men, Shamam, Witch Doctors, are other names of other times for similar //practitioners of witchcraft, "familiar spirits", magicians,//.

Not a scripture, though there are a few interesting scriptures one might read.

Dan 5:11 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
There is a man in thy kingdome, in whom is the spirit of the holy gods, and in the dayes of thy father light and vnderstanding and wisdome like the wisdome of the gods, was found in him: whom the King Nebuchad-nezzar thy father, the King, I say, thy father, made chiefe of the enchanters, astrologians, Caldeans, and soothsayers,

This says cleary that the "enchanters, astrologians, Caldeans, and soothsayers" were the wise men of the kingdom. In the time of Daniel, Daniel was appointed to be their chief. In the days ripe for the First advent of Jesus, mabye the Greeks also called them 'magi'?

ED: Not a supposition, it is the common word in Greek for the Chaldee House of rulers for the Babylonian Empire referring to //astrologers and/or sorcerers//, Wise Men, Shamam, Witch Doctors, are other names of other times for similar //practitioners of witchcraft, "familiar spirits", magicians,//.

BBob; According to the Greeks they could of been as you say, or they could of been as it was translated "wise men". I suspect that "wise men" is more appropiate being they were led by a star, provided by the Lord Himself, to the young child, and instead of going back to the King, they went a different way, it seems to protect the child. Just my opinion, take it or leave it.

BBob,

 

[skypair]

I spent a large part of the weekend listen to Rabbis teaching on the books you hold to Daniel, Zech, Ezek. and believe me, they sure have a different outlook on what the scripture says than you do.

Bob, I appreciate you doing that and those are some good perspectives to discuss.

First they believe our Christ was a liar and a false prophet, if He even existed.

Well, we know this is not true, but remember -- it was them being "cut out" of the olive tree. In Mt 5-7, Jesus told them about His kingdom and Mt 12 is Christ's last offer of His kingdom to them and their rejection thereof. That kingdom was to be spiritual AND PHYSICAL as Mt 5-7 explain. But now consider that from Mt 13-23, anything Jesus said basically made them out to be liars and hypocrites because they could not "see" Him as Messiah.

Second, they believe that all the twelve tribes of Israel will be gathered together in that Kingdom you speak of so much,

Yes, and I believe it begins with the 144,000 who are "firstfruits" and the nucleus of that nation which will give birth to the rulers of Israel in the MK. Mt 24:45-51 and Mt 25:14-30 are 2 parables of the "servants"/Israel who will rule and be given theh wealth that was coming to all the "servants"/Jews of the OT if they would but believe. (IMO, only Israel is referred to in Mt's kingdom of heaven parables as "servants").

... and they will rest for a 1000 years and let the earth replenish itself and therefore be a "new" earth.

Interesting how they fetch that 1000 years you were looking for. I'm surprised about the "rest" part as some passages say that the harvesters will harvest right behing the sowers and that the moutains will drip down wine in season. IOW, there will be an abundance of food except, where we saw already, in the nations that didn't bring up an offering yearly at the feast of tabernacles.

Third, they believe the gentiles people such as you and I are as the cattle and will be slaves to them and we have the souls equal to the animal.

"Strangers" and "dogs" were what we were called in the OT. That doesn't surprise me except it won't be you and I they refer to but those Gentiles who are unconverted.

Fourth they believe there will be a "world order" and all nations will follow that law.

There is that appearance in the OT of it being the "law" dispensation mainly because the spiritual aspect of the kingdom -- Christ's sacrifice, the indwelling Spirit, etc. -- was not revealed. Even when it said a "heart of flesh" and a "new covenant," they could not discern the origins of it.

Fifth, they believe that "their" Messiah will come and sit up in that Kingdom.

Exactly! And the reason they believe in the physical aspects of the kingdom is that all through the OT, that was the promise. Abraham finally gets all his land inheritance -- David his throne and forever kingdom -- Job stands upon the earth and sees his Redeemer -- Isaiah comes out of his grave after the indignation/GT has passed -- Ezekiel's valley of dead bones is revived and planted in the land and indwelt by God's the spirit.

Sixth, seems to me that everyone who has been taught what you and the two Ed's teach, should for their own sake, listen to some Jewish Rabbis.

We listen to the 'whole counsel of God.' Half the promises of the OT were fulfilled literally in Christ's first advent. If that is so, then the other half are yet to be fulfilled literally as well, right?

Seventh, where does the books of Daniel, Ezek and Zech prophesy that the Gentiles will live and reign in that Kingdom with Israel?

They don't. God didn't tell them that the Gentiles would be inserted into His plan if they didn't accept Messiah. He DID warn that He would make a people who were not people a nation and believers, but this was no help in that the Jews were supposed to be the means of God doing that and they didn't.

Also, they consider you as dung for the most part.

We know that -- well, except they love the money we are giving them to resettle in the land and protect them as a nation. They are getting "jealous" just like Jesus prophesied. Their "brethren" the Muslims, have merely taken the Jewish thoughts to an extreme of calling us infidels upon whom they wish only conversion or death!

So now that you know about Jewish expectations that have not been fulfilled, can you "plug in" a church era between weeks 69 and 70 of Daniel's vision in 9:24-27? God did not just turn all His OT promises over to the church. When Christ came, He offered His spiritual and His physical kingdom at the same time. Some Jews saw the spiritual but all were looking for the physical kingdom of David -- which, in rejecting and crucifying instead of crowning Jesus after Palm Sunday, they rejected.

skypair

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob, I appreciate you doing that and those are some good perspectives to discuss.

Well, we know this is not true, but remember -- it was them being "cut out" of the olive tree. In Mt 5-7, Jesus told them about His kingdom and Mt 12 is Christ's last offer of His kingdom to them and their rejection thereof. That kingdom was to be spiritual AND PHYSICAL as Mt 5-7 explain. But now consider that from Mt 13-23, anything Jesus said basically made them out to be liars and hypocrites because they could not "see" Him as Messiah.

Yes, and I believe it begins with the 144,000 who are "firstfruits" and the nucleus of that nation which will give birth to the rulers of Israel in the MK. Mt 24:45-51 and Mt 25:14-30 are 2 parables of the "servants"/Israel who will rule and be given theh wealth that was coming to all the "servants"/Jews of the OT if they would but believe. (IMO, only Israel is referred to in Mt's kingdom of heaven parables as "servants").

Interesting how they fetch that 1000 years you were looking for. I'm surprised about the "rest" part as some passages say that the harvesters will harvest right behing the sowers and that the moutains will drip down wine in season. IOW, there will be an abundance of food except, where we saw already, in the nations that didn't bring up an offering yearly at the feast of tabernacles.
"Strangers" and "dogs" were what we were called in the OT. That doesn't surprise me except it won't be you and I they refer to but those Gentiles who are unconverted.

There is that appearance in the OT of it being the "law" dispensation mainly because the spiritual aspect of the kingdom -- Christ's sacrifice, the indwelling Spirit, etc. -- was not revealed. Even when it said a "heart of flesh" and a "new covenant," they could not discern the origins of it.

Exactly! And the reason they believe in the physical aspects of the kingdom is that all through the OT, that was the promise. Abraham finally gets all his land inheritance -- David his throne and forever kingdom -- Job stands upon the earth and sees his Redeemer -- Isaiah comes out of his grave after the indignation/GT has passed -- Ezekiel's valley of dead bones is revived and planted in the land and indwelt by God's the spirit.

We listen to the 'whole counsel of God.' Half the promises of the OT were fulfilled literally in Christ's first advent. If that is so, then the other half are yet to be fulfilled literally as well, right?

They don't. God didn't tell them that the Gentiles would be inserted into His plan if they didn't accept Messiah. He DID warn that He would make a people who were not people a nation and believers, but this was no help in that the Jews were supposed to be the means of God doing that and they didn't.

We know that -- well, except they love the money we are giving them to resettle in the land and protect them as a nation. They are getting "jealous" just like Jesus prophesied. Their "brethren" the Muslims, have merely taken the Jewish thoughts to an extreme of calling us infidels upon whom they wish only conversion or death!

So now that you know about Jewish expectations that have not been fulfilled, can you "plug in" a church era between weeks 69 and 70 of Daniel's vision in 9:24-27? God did not just turn all His OT promises over to the church. When Christ came, He offered His spiritual and His physical kingdom at the same time. Some Jews saw the spiritual but all were looking for the physical kingdom of David -- which, in rejecting and crucifying instead of crowning Jesus after Palm Sunday, they rejected.

skypair

I been very sick, just now feeling a little better. I will answer you post then back to bed.

I believe there is so much in the OT, that you are not considering, such as:

Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Rom 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut [it] short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.

Why not let the bold part sink in Sky??

BBob,

 

[skypair]

I been very sick, just now feeling a little better. I will answer you post then back to bed.

Wow! I suspected that something was amiss! God bless, Bob.

I believe there is so much in the OT, that you are not considering, such as:

Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Rom 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut [it] short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.

"A short work" -- "a day is as 1000 years." One hour = tribulation. One day = MK. Christ waited 2 days to come resurrect Lazarus/OT Israel. How short do you think that work will be? When will it be done?

Bob, there is another thread that might interest you regarding your preterist beliefs. When you get well enough, I hope you will engage with it as well. I'll pray for your health, Bob. Hope it's not something life threatening, borther.

skypair

 

[Brother Bob]

Wow! I suspected that something was amiss! God bless, Bob.

"A short work" -- "a day is as 1000 years." One hour = tribulation. One day = MK. Christ waited 2 days to come resurrect Lazarus/OT Israel. How short do you think that work will be? When will it be done?

Bob, there is another thread that might interest you regarding your preterist beliefs. When you get well enough, I hope you will engage with it as well. I'll pray for your health, Bob. Hope it's not something life threatening, borther.

skypair

OR!!!!

Job 9:3, "If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand."

Psalms 50:10, "For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills."

Ecclesiastes 7:28, "...one man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found."

Song of Solomon 4:4, "…whereon there hang a thousand bucklers, all shields of mighty men."

Daniel 5:1, "Belshazzar the king made a great feast to a thousand of his lords, and drank wine before the thousand."

Daniel 7:10, "...thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him."
Deuteronomy 7:9, "…which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that…keep his commandments to a thousand generations;"

1 Chronicles 16:15, "Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;"

Psalms 84:10, "For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand."

Psalms 90:4, "For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past,"
Psalms 105:8, "He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations."

Ecclesiastes 6:6, "Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?"

2 Peter 3:8, "...one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

It should be obvious from the above that every occurance of the word "thousand," is not literal but symbolic in the Bible, for a large number or long period of time. Why is it when we go to the book of Revelation many interpret this thousand years as literal? Especially when there is no scriptural to warrant doing so?

1 Chronicles 16:15, "Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;"

Have we not passed the thousand generations?????

BBob,

 

[EdSutton]

It should be obvious from the above that every occurance of the word "thousand," is not literal but symbolic in the Bible, for a large number or long period of time. Why is it when we go to the book of Revelation many interpret this thousand years as literal? Especially when there is no scriptural to warrant doing so?

1 Chronicles 16:15, "Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;"

Have we not passed the thousand generations?????

BBob,

So you are saying that "thousand" is never literal, apparently. (Incidentally, I assume this is not any typo, for you have said this before, I believe.)

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1229552&postcount=205

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1229087&postcount=181

That being the case, how many other words and phrases don't ever mean what they say, in your allegorical-based system? I assume 'kingdom' is already included, as well as "the Judgment Seat of Christ". "Repent" has already been redefined, I think, to mean "repent from sin", and with The Holy Spirit apparently never seeing fit to use those words, it is left up to us too add to it, I guess.

Can we add "hell"? How about the Great White Throne? Judgment? Heaven? Where does it stop?

How can we know that God ever really means what Scripture says? That is/was the exact position, effectively, of Marcion, the Heretic, Origen, Augustine, and Constantine, as well as most of the Roman Catholic church, historically, to name just a few, and not to even mention most liberals of today.

And no, if the earth is anything like 6-8000 years old, we have not come anywhere close to a thousand generations, in that time, if a 'generation' is considered anything like the usual 30-40 years. At the most, we are at some 300 generations, and that is a very generous estimate, at that. Four generations per century at a 10K year earth history, only gets us to 400 generations.

I've never heard anyone suggest a generation was only some 6 years long.

Well, before now, that is.

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

So you are saying that "thousand" is never literal, apparently. (Incidentally, I assume this is not any typo, for you have said this before, I believe.)

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1229552&postcount=205

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1229087&postcount=181

That being the case, how many other words and phrases don't ever mean what they say, in your allegorical-based system? I assume 'kingdom' is already included, as well as "the Judgment Seat of Christ". "Repent" has already been redefined, I think, to mean "repent from sin", and with The Holy Spirit apparently never seeing fit to use those words, it is left up to us too add to it, I guess.

Can we add "hell"? How about the Great White Throne? Judgment? Heaven? Where does it stop?

How can we know that God ever really means what Scripture says? That is/was the exact position, effectively, of Marcion, the Heretic, Origen, Augustine, and Constantine, as well as most of the Roman Catholic church, historically, to name just a few, and not to even mention most liberals of today.

And no, if the earth is anything like 6-8000 years old, we have not come anywhere close to a thousand generations, in that time, if a 'generation' is considered anything like the usual 30-40 years. At the most, we are at some 300 generations, and that is a very generous estimate, at that. Four generations per century at a 10K year earth history, only gets us to 400 generations.

I've never heard anyone suggest a generation was only some 6 years long.

Well, before now, that is.

Ed

How do you know that you are really here, it may be a case of a sound in the forrest when a tree falls, if you are not there to hear it. Is there or isn't there??

Are you really in the world, or is it some freak of nature and you are able to see here, but in reality you are not really here??

Did you get a good nights sleep???

"that every occurance of the word "thousand," is not literal but symbolic"

I can see where you come up with what you ask, but I guess it depends on your thought process.

1. Is it saying that every occurance of the word "thousand" is not literal but symbolic"?

2. Or, is it saying that every occurance of the word "thousand is not literal but symbolic"?

In other words, is it always a thousand or could it be symbolic?? Only you Ed, would come up with this.

3. Lets try another one:

Psalms 50:10, "For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills."

Who owns the cattle on the rest of the hills??

BBob,

 

[skypair]

It should be obvious from the above that every occurance of the word "thousand," is not literal but symbolic in the Bible, for a large number or long period of time. Why is it when we go to the book of Revelation many interpret this thousand years as literal? Especially when there is no scriptural to warrant doing so?

Bob, go back and look at the CONTEXT. Some of those quotes do mean a literal 1000. You're an educated man. Can you not detect the literal from the spiritual/allegorical?

1 Chronicles 16:15, "Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;"

Have we not passed the thousand generations?????,

Interesting question. No. But this particular covenant involves the eternal kingdom -- the New Earth! It is the "land covenant" to Abraham and Isaac, right? It will still be in force for 1000 generations! Larkin even comments on this very fact. He says that there will be 1000 generations and that is just the beginning!

Seems like you are feeling better and my prayers were answered. You're feisty as ever! :laugh: I hope I won't regret my prayer. :laugh:

skypair

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob, go back and look at the CONTEXT. Some of those quotes do mean a literal 1000. You're an educated man. Can you not detect the literal from the spiritual/allegorical?

Interesting question. No. But this particular covenant involves the eternal kingdom -- the New Earth! It is the "land covenant" to Abraham and Isaac, right? It will still be in force for 1000 generations! Larkin even comments on this very fact. He says that there will be 1000 generations and that is just the beginning!

Seems like you are feeling better and my prayers were answered. You're feisty as ever! :laugh: I hope I won't regret my prayer. :laugh:

skypair

So, if we haven't passed the thousand generations, how come they were cutoff????

BBob,

 

[EdSutton]

How do you know that you are really here, it may be a case of a sound in the forrest when a tree falls, if you are not there to hear it. Is there or isn't there??

Are you really in the world, or is it some freak of nature and you are able to see here, but in reality you are not really here??

Did you get a good nights sleep???

"that every occurance of the word "thousand," is not literal but symbolic"

I can see where you come up with what you ask, but I guess it depends on your thought process.

1. Is it saying that every occurance of the word "thousand" is not literal but symbolic"?

2. Or, is it saying that every occurance of the word "thousand is not literal but symbolic"?

In other words, is it always a thousand or could it be symbolic?? Only you Ed, would come up with this.

3. Have you ever heard anyone question whether God's covenant was only to a thousand generations??

1 Chronicles 16:15, "Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;"

BBob,

I have absolutly no clue what you are referring to with your first two paragraphs of inane ramblings.

But - I wasn't the one who made the statement. Nor did I ever say that there are not symbolic uses of numbers, and other figures of speech, either. You are the one who said that "every occurrance of the word is not literal but symbolic."

But I recognize that there are also literal usages of numbers, as well as symbolic uses, and further, that the definition of a word does not change, depending on whether the genre of Scripture is intended in a symbolic or a literal meaning, in the usage.

Jesus said, for an example of a symbolic usage, "I am the door." The word means "door" or "doorway". It does no violence to the text to understand this in a symbolic sense. It would do violence to the text to render it as "window" or "gate".

It, likewise, does no particular violence to the text to understand that thousand may be used in a symbolic way, in a given verse. It does violence to the text to render "thousand" as "hundred" or "million".

And it is greatly misusing Scripture to read it into a theology, first, no matter who is doing it, or what is the subject.

BTW, no, I don't recall anyone ever bringing up a question about any covenant, of the at least eight covenants found in Scripture (Edenic, Adamic, Noahic, Abrahamic, Mosaic, Davidic, Palestinian, New), as being "only to a thousand generations." Incidentally, the covenant referred to in I Chronicles 16:15 could not possibly have been the "new" covenant, for it had not yet been revealed that there would even be such a thing, nor the Edenic, the Adamic, or the Noahic, so had to be one of the Abrahamic, Mosaic, Davidic, or Palestinian covenants, and the context shows it to be the Abrahamic covenant, which covenant is three times referred to as "an everlasting covenant", in Gen. 17:7,13,& 19, FWIW.

Ed

 

[Ed Edwards]

So, if we haven't passed the thousand generations, how come they were cutoff????

BBob,

The answer to your question denies preterism & partial-preterism

 

[Brother Bob]

The answer to your question denies preterism & partial-preterism

You don't know if it does or not. What if the part I am asking I consider not to be preterism, you ever think about that Ed?

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

I have absolutly no clue what you are referring to with your first two paragraphs of inane ramblings.

But - I wasn't the one who made the statement. Nor did I ever say that there are not symbolic uses of numbers, and other figures of speech, either. You are the one who said that "every occurrance of the word is not literal but symbolic."

But I recognize that there are also literal usages of numbers, as well as symbolic uses, and further, that the definition of a word does not change, depending on whether the genre of Scripture is intended in a symbolic or a literal meaning, in the usage.

Jesus said, for an example of a symbolic usage, "I am the door." The word means "door" or "doorway". It does no violence to the text to understand this in a symbolic sense. It would do violence to the text to render it as "window" or "gate".

It, likewise, does no particular violence to the text to understand that thousand may be used in a symbolic way, in a given verse. It does violence to the text to render "thousand" as "hundred" or "million".

And it is greatly misusing Scripture to read it into a theology, first, no matter who is doing it, or what is the subject.

BTW, no, I don't recall anyone ever bringing up a question about any covenant, of the at least eight covenants found in Scripture (Edenic, Adamic, Noahic, Abrahamic, Mosaic, Davidic, Palestinian, New), as being "only to a thousand generations." Incidentally, the covenant referred to in I Chronicles 16:15 could not possibly have been the "new" covenant, for it had not yet been revealed that there would even be such a thing, nor the Edenic, the Adamic, or the Noahic, so had to be one of the Abrahamic, Mosaic, Davidic, or Palestinian covenants, and the context shows it to be the Abrahamic covenant, which covenant is three times referred to as "an everlasting covenant", in Gen. 17:7,13,& 19, FWIW.

Ed

Psalms, psalm 105
8: He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.
9: Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac;
10: And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:

Whatever covenant it was, it was to Israel also. My question still remains, why were they cutoff.


If there are some memtions of "thousand" that are literal in OT.

There are some that are spiritual in the OT.

Then in fact the following statement would be true.

"that every occurance of the word "thousand," is not literal but symbolic"

BBob,

 

[skypair]

Psalms, psalm 105
8: He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.
9: Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac;
10: And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:

Whatever covenant it was, it was to Israel also. My question still remains, why were they cutoff.

I've said it before -- I'll say it again. ISRAEL will be the olive tree in the earth per Rom 11, ALL believing Israel grafted back in.

Imagine this if you can ---- OT Israel (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, Isaiah, Job -- all those guys and maybe Sarah too :laugh. They ALL get resurrected back to earth on account of that covenant you cite!! Cool, eh? And they see Christ/Messiah, believe, and receive the "heart of flesh" promised to Jeremiah (Did I mention he would be resurrected, too? Yeah!).

Now the "land," all that was promised to Abraham, gets divided up among the tribes but the new priests are not of Levi but of Zadok.

But imagine again --- the land is too small for all those OT and trib saints (Isa 49:20-23) and then the aborted babies, the deceased infants, the mentally infirm of all generations are resurrected and brought to resurrected Israel. Wow! More than they can handle, eh?

Well, guess what. ALL the covenants have LITERAL fulfillments!!

skypair