Understanding the NT re: eternal security

[AustinC]

BACs must depend on God's grace to be saved.
I even believe that God must first make a BIG-TIME move on behalf of the non-believer!
Witness Lydia in Acts 16:14.

Butski, BACs have the free-will to reject God's glorious grace
and, for example, live a life of habitual sin.
This would be rejecting the requirements of the new covenant:
true saving faith = belief-faith-trust + obedience + righteousness + holiness.
Please see Romans 6:16-19, which agrees with many NT verses/passages).

Ephesians 2:4-9

But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

What is a BAC? Is it anything like a JW or AoG or CoLDS?

 

[Samuels]

Does the New Covenant require salvation by works? Not according to Paul. The Born Again believe as a result of God's saving grace. We are not born by the will of the flesh.
“Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” John 1:13 (KJV 1900)

This is all Kindergarden stuff
Dave, it's time to move on from slurping milk to eating the necessary meat to obtain eternal life.
Everyone knows we are born-again via the will of God (and not the flesh).
Apparently, you are rejecting the many dire warnings in the NT that BACs CAN lose their salvation.
Just for example ... try being a habitual liar (w/o repenting) and see where you end up!

 

[AustinC]

This is all Kindergarden stuff
Dave, it's time to move on from slurping milk to eating the necessary meat to obtain eternal life.
Everyone knows we are born-again via the will of God (and not the flesh).
Apparently, you are rejecting the many dire warnings in the NT that BACs CAN lose their salvation.
Just for example ... try being a habitual liar (w/o repenting) and see where you end up!

But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved

 

[1689Dave]

This is all Kindergarden stuff
Dave, it's time to move on from slurping milk to eating the necessary meat to obtain eternal life.
Everyone knows we are born-again via the will of God (and not the flesh).
Apparently, you are rejecting the many dire warnings in the NT that BACs CAN lose their salvation.
Just for example ... try being a habitual liar (w/o repenting) and see where you end up!

Your insults show you've nothing left to work with. I think we've exhausted this discussion. Bye Bye.........

 

[Dave G]

But, do you think you’re going to hear this from most churches?
No way, Jose, because it is so unpopular that it would cause
a drop in attendance and, wait for it … a drop in tithes!
(Lots of tithes are required to pay church salaries, mortgages, etc.)

Fully 40% of visible churches on street corners teach this.
5 of the ones in my town do...

The "Four Square" church downtown, the "Methodist" church a block from it, the "Pentecostal" church a block over from that, the "Roman Catholic Church" a block over from that, and the "Bible Missionary" church uptown.

I can give you a partial list of denominations which hold to loss of salvation, and they are many.

 

[Dave G]

This is all Kindergarden stuff
Dave, it's time to move on from slurping milk to eating the necessary meat to obtain eternal life.
Everyone knows we are born-again via the will of God (and not the flesh).
Apparently, you are rejecting the many dire warnings in the NT that BACs CAN lose their salvation.
Just for example ... try being a habitual liar (w/o repenting) and see where you end up!

You're missing the parables of the Sower and the Tares of the field.
Many who think they are saved, in reality are not.
Many who think that they are doing the will of God are not...they are doing what they believe will gain them favor or keep them in favor with the Lord.

They were "sown" into Christ's field by his enemy, the devil.

Many who profess Christ do not have the Holy Spirit in residence, Samuels.
It is to the professing body of Christ that the warnings are made, and is to the "tares" that the words of Matthew 7:21-23 will be addressed.

 

[Dave G]

What is a BAC? Is it anything like a JW or AoG or CoLDS?

"Born-Again Christian".

 

[AustinC]

"Born-Again Christian".

Thank you. I didn't recognize that acronym.

Is there a non-born again Christian?

 

[Samuels]

Does the New Covenant require salvation by works?

Please, being obedient to the Lord's commands is NOT salvation by works.

There are many NT verses about obedience, and holiness,
and enduring to the end, and practicing righteousness, and etc.?
Those who are habitually sinning (w/o repentance) are NOT on their way to heaven.
Give me a break ... don't listen to me ... there are many dire warnings in the NT.

Jesus says those who love Him will obey Him (John 14).
Jesus says those who are His friends will obey Him (John 15).
Do you think anyone who does NOT fit this description will be invited into heaven?

 

[Samuels]

What is a BAC?

Born Again Christian

 

[AustinC]

Born Again Christian

As opposed to a non-born again Christian?

 

[AustinC]

Please, being obedient to the Lord's commands is NOT salvation by works.

There are many NT verses about obedience, and holiness,
and enduring to the end, and practicing righteousness, and etc.?

Jesus says those who love Him will obey Him (John 14).
Jesus says those who are His friends will obey Him (John 15).
Do you think anyone who does NOT fit this description will be invited into heaven?

Wow, Samuels, you really cannot see your works salvation teaching? It has to be a big blind spot for you, but you're not teaching salvation by grace alone.

 

[Samuels]

Thank you. I didn't recognize that acronym.
Is there a non-born again Christian?

Many people throughout history have sat in the pews ...
and considered themselves to be Christian ... who never were born-again.
These would be called intellectual Christians ... intellectual belief only.

 

[Samuels]

Wow ... you're not teaching salvation by grace alone

Paul's salvation by grace alone refers to NOT trusting in doing good works/deeds for one's salvation.
It also refers to: the INITIAL born-again experience is ONLY by God's grace.
Everything STARTS via God's grace.
Then, BACs have their part to play due to their free-will, etc.
One has to co-operate with the precious Holy Spirit.
E.G. a BAC who is involved in habitual sinning has forfeited his/her righteous standing.
Do you not know that ...
to be righteous (in God's eyes) one has to practice righteousness? (e.g. 1 John 3:10)
Repentance is required to return a back-slider to faith and eternal life.

 

[Dave G]

Is there a non-born again Christian?

Churches today, in my estimation, are filled with them.

People who have "made a decision for Christ" but have never been called into the fellowship of the saints through the preaching of God's word and the power of God changing their hearts.

 

[Dave G]

Paul's salvation by grace alone refers to NOT trusting in doing good works/deeds for one's salvation.

Samuels, if salvation can be lost, what then are you trusting in to keep you saved...
Your efforts, or God's efforts on your behalf?

 

[Samuels]

Samuels, if salvation can be lost, what then are you trusting in to keep you saved...
Your efforts, or God's efforts on your behalf?

Except for creation, God does pretty much everything in conjunction with man.
Our salvation is a co-operative effort between God and us.

OSAS is straight out of the very pits of hell.
So, instead of trusting in it, how about trusting in what the NT clearly teaches!
Or, does one need to have the baptism with the Holy Spirit to see this?

Do I need to list all of the dire warnings in the NT about losing salvation?
I have often said that I'd rather send people a NT.
But, when one is deceived, NT verses don't seem to do any good.

 

[Dave G]

Except for creation, God does pretty much everything in conjunction with man.
Our salvation is a co-operative effort between God and us.

No, it is not.
It is the work of God alone.

Eternal life is not a reward for performing an act or set of actions, or "meeting a set of requirements", it is a gift ( Romans 6:23 ).
It is wholly unmerited, and cannot be purchased at any price.

Not of works, lest any man should boast ( Ephesians 2:8-9 ).

OSAS is straight out of the very pits of hell.
So, instead of trusting in it, how about trusting in what the NT clearly teaches!
Or, does one need to have the baptism with the Holy Spirit to see this?

I agree that "Once Saved, Always Saved" is error...
That is why I believe "If Saved, Always Saved".

I also trust the Lord Jesus and what He says:
" Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." ( John 5:24 ).


But I do agree that one must be born again ( to be "of" God ) in order to believe God's words:
" He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God." ( John 8:47 ).

" But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man." ( 1 Corinthians 2:14-15 ).

 

[Dave G]

Do I need to list all of the dire warnings in the NT about losing salvation?

No, you do not.
I already know where they are and why you believe that they describe ( by inference ) loss of salvation.

But I can tell you this:
There is nothing in God's word that anywhere declares that a blood-bought child of the living God will ever lose that which they never had the power to gain...

God's mercy and compassion towards them.

I have often said that I'd rather send people a NT.
But, when one is deceived, NT verses don't seem to do any good.

I pray that you read and believe the whole of God's word,
instead of believing some of it and rejecting other pieces of it, like this:

" All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." ( John 6:37-40 ).

At the end of the day, all I can do is hope that someday He shows you why you're conditioning all the passages like these with the warning passages that are meant to guide His children ( who were chosen in Christ from the foundation of the world, Ephesians 1:4-5 ) into examining themselves as to whether or not they are actually in the faith.

May God bless you as you consider these things.

 

[AustinC]

Paul's salvation by grace alone refers to NOT trusting in doing good works/deeds for one's salvation.
It also refers to: the INITIAL born-again experience is ONLY by God's grace.
Everything STARTS via God's grace.
Then, BACs have their part to play due to their free-will, etc.
One has to co-operate with the precious Holy Spirit.
E.G. a BAC who is involved in habitual sinning has forfeited his/her righteous standing.
Do you not know that ...
to be righteous (in God's eyes) one has to practice righteousness? (e.g. 1 John 3:10)
Repentance is required to return a back-slider to faith and eternal life.

Do you realize you have a variation of the Judaizers whom Paul called anathema in his letter to the Galatians? You want to begin by grace, but then revert back to the law. May it never be.

God keeps his children. He gives them faith. Faith does good works. If someone says they have faith, but there is no evidence of good works, it is a surety that the person is lying and has never been given the gift of faith. The Bible calls them tares, wolves and goats. They were never born again. They were never redeemed. God never chose them.