saturneptune
New Member
For Calvinists, is it possible for an unelect person to desire salvation? It is just a question. Please do not let this degenerate into a Calvin-free will debate.
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Unelect Person Desiring Salvation
- Thread starter saturneptune
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Greektim
Well-Known Member
Desiring salvation does not equal desiring God.
Rich young ruler is one who desired salvation (and wealth) but did not desire Jesus enough to follow him amongst all else. The gospel is not getting heaven but getting Jesus. He is the goal. Anything less is not the gospel!
saturneptune
New Member
Maybe the correct phrase would have been can a person desire Jesus and be unelected? I think we are all well aware of what the Gospel is.
David Michael Harris
Active Member
Well he is on a good road to the Grace of God. Probably why he or she is on it anyway.
David Michael Harris
Active Member
Only God is GOOD
He won't reject anyone who seeks Him, infact according to Paul it's what He wants.
David Michael Harris
Active Member
Sometimes I get this idea that this boards members are anti the love of God. Why? Because they so hung up on this calvinism thing.
saturneptune
New Member
The reason I did not address the question to free willers is because if we have the ability to choose, there is no elect or unelect in the sense of predestination, only foreknowledge.
David Michael Harris
Active Member
To be honest it's beyond me as Romans states 11:33
"Concerning the rich young ruler of whom it is said Christ "loved him" (Mark 10:21), we fully believe that he was one of God's elect and was "saved" sometime after his interview with our Lord. . . . It is written, "Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out," and this man certainly did "come" to Him." —Arthur Walkington Pink, The Sovereignty of God
saturneptune
New Member
I love that verse. In fact, it comes to mind every time I gaze across the night sky with my telescope. Our minds cannot beging to comprehend the glory, majesty, love, and every other concept we can think of about the Lord, and no doubt some we cannot think of.
Also, in relation to this thread is that God has got everything worked out regardless of what we think about it.
saturneptune
New Member
Thanks so much for that verse. I never paid any attention to the words "loved him." That is very edifying and comforting.
David Michael Harris
Active Member
Agreed, I just love that verse, it put's pay to a lot of things.
Off to eat. Sry to post that but I cannot seem to put myself as away. Great posts and chat.
Last edited by a moderator:
convicted1
Guest
In the Calvinist model, the non-elect will not come to God because they will not be drawn to Him. So, in that model, the non-elect will not come to Him to be saved.
I see it that they will not come because they reject the truth, and have traded it for lies.
I see it that they will not come because they reject the truth, and have traded it for lies.
Greektim
Well-Known Member
I don't mean to offend there, but that is a huge distinction with a major difference. And honestly, we do not all have the same understanding of what the gospel is.
David Michael Harris
Active Member
Yeah, those lost just will not come to the light, they know they should but they don't. And it happens in life, Salvation just over rules this in Grace. It's very profound. They could but they don't, it's very profound, it's as if God is just watching for a tiny thought they they want to be saved and then He shows Grace toward the individual. I personally believe God does not want anyone to be lost and save all but He has to respect His attributes... that sounds a bit daft I guess.
plain_n_simple
Active Member
Suppose you witness to a non-elect, they accept Jesus but it won't count. They are bound for hell anyway, according to Calvin.
David Michael Harris
Active Member
That's what winds me up most about calvinisim, it's so clinical and jumps so far ahead when the Gospel is so live and active at the moment, it stifles evangelism.
BS.... Then you do not know Calvinism. Personally, I was saved by an Evangelical Calvinist who convicted me of being a phony baloney Christian. He asked me bluntly why I claimed to be a Christian but did not act like one. Why did I slap Christ in the face by my continual sinning? Why did I say one thing & then turn around & do the opposite?
You must be hanging around with the wrong type of Calvinist. BTW, no Arminian ever went there.
Greektim
Well-Known Member
If you really knew the system of Calvinism, then by the very fact that they are not elect means that (1) Jesus didn't accept him (the real issue) & (2) that person would never "accept" Jesus (even an impotent one who needs acceptance).
You are painting a picture and titling it Calvinism, but it is not what Calvinist argue. Either you are ignorant of our main beliefs, or you are willfully misrepresenting. If there is a third option, please share. But if either the first or second option is correct, then that does not speak very highly of you.
Huh....how do you know who is non elect?