USA in Bible Prophesy

[dad2]

William Hendriksen's overview:

A careful reading of the book of Revelation has made it clear that the book consists of seven sections, and that these seven sections run parallel to one another. Each of them spans the entire dispensation from the first to the second coming of Christ. This period is viewed now from one aspect, now from another."

Once again that was a big cut and paste, and I am not sure what point may be in there that even relates to the topic.
The seven churches were in certain areas so you would need to explain how they 'spanned' the time from Jesus till the time the world ends? The vials also were not poured out in the first century, so that doesn't span anything like you claim. Etc. So, who is the kingdom that gets destroyed in the end? Try to focus.

 

[dad2]

Taking the Bible as a whole. I am very much a "view from 30,000 feet" fella. I desire to see how it all fits together. And if it doesn't fit, then I am like

Maybe be specific.

 

[dad2]

Got you... But if you have it Ken, why didn't you post it, so those who want to read it and are interested, could do so?... Just asking... Brother Glen

Btw... A book cost but the link is free!... Well not really but it comes with the service and you can't put the link in a bookcase!

We also do not want book commercials spammed here. If you want to use a book as a source, link it. This is a discussion, not a book recommendation club.

 

[KenH]

That is a generalization that explains nothing. The millennium is only explained in Revelation 20. So you ,actually think the rest of the New Testament is now obsolete? 2 Corinthians 4:3-4, Matthew 13:19 and the like?

No.

 

[KenH]

Maybe be specific.

Like I said, I am big picture fella. I find little profit in arguing over minutiae. Some people enjoy doing that, I don't. I have interest in debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

 

[KenH]

We also do not want book commercials spammed here. If you want to use a book as a source, link it. This is a discussion, not a book recommendation club.

Are you now a moderator on this board?

 

[KenH]

Once again that was a big cut and paste, and I am not sure what point may be in there that even relates to the topic.
The seven churches were in certain areas so you would need to explain how they 'spanned' the time from Jesus till the time the world ends? The vials also were not poured out in the first century, so that doesn't span anything like you claim. Etc. So, who is the kingdom that gets destroyed in the end? Try to focus.

I suggest that you read Hendriksen's commentary if you want answers, especially since you can read it for free on the internet.

 

[dad2]

Like I said, I am big picture fella. I find little profit in arguing over minutiae. Some people enjoy doing that, I don't. I have interest in debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

So what is the big picture on the topic? You know, that the USA could be the Babylon that gets destroyed before the very end?

 

[dad2]

I suggest that you read Hendriksen's commentary if you want answers, especially since you can read it for free on the internet.

I already have answers. I was looking for intelligent discussion that might include some sort of case about why this is not actually near the end, or that some other kingdom must be Babylon or etc. Not irrelevant pi in the sky 30,000 ft high!

 

[dad2]

Are you now a moderator on this board?

I did not start a thread about people offering books to read. Maybe sell them elsewhere? Here you should make a point that is clear and concise and use a book if you must, as a supporting link.

 

[37818]

No.

For me it is very simple. When I was a new Christian in my teens, my favorite aunt gave me a book, The Sermon On The Mount, by Emmet Fox. What stood out in my mind was he taught the Bible did not teach salvation. Revelation 20 teaches the millennium.

 

[tyndale1946]

We also do not want book commercials spammed here. If you want to use a book as a source, link it. This is a discussion, not a book recommendation club.

Then lets cut to the chase... This is political debate and discussion forum... Is this politics?... No this is religion!... So I ask the moderator or powers that be to move it... This makes about as much sense as discussing Joe Biden's policy in the C/A Forum... And from one old timer to a newbie, you haven't been here long enough... Ken and I have!... But you will learn... "Maybe"???... Brother Glen

 

[KenH]

So what is the big picture on the topic? You know, that the USA could be the Babylon that gets destroyed before the very end?

From Hendriksen's commentary:

"In the final judgment, moreover, these bowls of wrath will be completely emptied upon impenitent, hardened sinners. Similarly, ‘Babylon’ falls whenever the kingdoms of the world—whether Babylonia, Assyria or Rome— collapse. The great and final fall of Babylon occurs in connection with the second coming of our Lord to judge the world."

...

"Babylon is the world as centre of seduction."

...

"In order to arrive at the correct view with respect to the symbolical meaning of this figure, we must bear in mind, first of all, that Babylon is called the great harlot. In other words, the symbol indicates that which allures, tempts, seduces and draws people away from God. Secondly, we must remember that this harlot is a worldly city, namely, Babylon. It reminds us of pleasure-mad, arrogant, presumptuous Babylon of old. The description of this symbolical Babylon of Revelation 17-19 also recalls to our mind that heathen centre of wickedness and seduction, Tyre. Observe the striking similarity between Revelation 17-19 and Ezekiel 2 7, 28. Moreover, when we study the catalogue of goods found in Babylon (18: 11 if.) it becomes evident that the symbol has reference to a great industrial and commercial metropolis. Babylon, therefore, must indicate the world as a centre of industry, commerce, art, culture, etc., which by means of all these things seeks to entice and seduce the believer, that is, to turn him away from God. It symbolizes the concentration of the luxury, vice, and glamour of this world. It is the world viewed as the embodiment of ‘the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the vainglory of life’ (1 Jn. 2: 16). Thirdly, Babylon thus viewed is past, present and future. Its form changes; its essence remains. Let us remember that the harlot, Babylon, is very closely associated with the beast, so closely, in fact, that she is said to be sitting on the beast (17: 3). The beast is the entire antichristian persecution movement throughout history, embodied in successive world empires. The beast, very clearly, is past, present, and future. (Read Rev. 17: 8-10.) Therefore we conclude that the harlot also represents the world as the centre of antichristian seduction at any moment of history."

 

[dad2]

Then lets cut to the chase... This is political debate and discussion forum... Is this politics?... No this is religion!... So I ask the moderator or power that be to move it... This makes about as much sense as discussing Joe Biden's policy in the C/A Forum... And from one old timer to a newbie, you haven't been here long enough... Ken and I have!... But you will learn... "Maybe"???... Brother Glen

The USA is political. The ever increasing persecution of Christians and the bible is political. When the (US?) gets destroyed totally, that is political. When the new powers rise to power after this it is political. It is also religious.

 

[KenH]

The USA is political. The ever increasing persecution of Christians and the bible is political. When the (US?) gets destroyed totally, that is political. When the new powers rise to power after this it is political. It is also religious.

You appear to be WAY too U.S.-centric in the way you read the Bible. Let God take care of the details associated with the second coming of Christ and the establishment of the new heavens and earth wherein dwells righteousness (2 Peter 3:13). God will bring this present heavens and earth to a conclusion as He purposes in the way that He purposes. I am quite content with knowing that Christ is returning and setting up the new heavens and earth wherein dwells righteousness. As Christ said, "Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble." (Matthew 6:34)

 

[KenH]

I sort of like the old saying, "I am a pan-millennialist. I believe that it will all pan out in the end."

 

[dad2]

From Hendriksen's commentary:

"In the final judgment, moreover, these bowls of wrath will be completely emptied upon impenitent, hardened sinners. Similarly, ‘Babylon’ falls whenever the kingdoms of the world—whether Babylonia, Assyria or Rome— collapse. The great and final fall of Babylon occurs in connection with the second coming of our Lord to judge the world."

...

"Babylon is the world as centre of seduction."

...

"In order to arrive at the correct view with respect to the symbolical meaning of this figure, we must bear in mind, first of all, that Babylon is called the great harlot. In other words, the symbol indicates that which allures, tempts, seduces and draws people away from God.

Right, hence the OP. Did you think the supercommercialism, Hollywood, and drugs and crime etc were not abominations?

Secondly, we must remember that this harlot is a worldly city, namely, Babylon. It reminds us of pleasure-mad, arrogant, presumptuous Babylon of old. The description of this symbolical Babylon of Revelation 17-19 also recalls to our mind that heathen centre of wickedness and seduction, Tyre.

Again, the USA fits to a tee

Observe the striking similarity between Revelation 17-19 and Ezekiel 2 7, 28. Moreover, when we study the catalogue of goods found in Babylon (18: 11 if.) it becomes evident that the symbol has reference to a great industrial and commercial metropolis.

The US has been the greatest centre for many years.

Babylon, therefore, must indicate the world as a centre of industry, commerce, art, culture, etc., which by means of all these things seeks to entice and seduce the believer, that is, to turn him away from God. It symbolizes the concentration of the luxury, vice, and glamour of this world

So the USA fits then.

. It is the world viewed as the embodiment of ‘the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the vainglory of life’ (1 Jn. 2: 16).

Again, nothing else has probably ever fitted in history as well.

Thirdly, Babylon thus viewed is past, present and future.

Not exactly.
Yes, the seventh head which we are told is actually a kingdom is on that beast upon which all the other heads also was on. But that kingdom is one that exists in the end and gets destroyed.

The beast is the entire antichristian persecution movement throughout history, embodied in successive world empires.

No. We are told that there are seven kingdoms actually. Not 'persecution movements'! Since they all receive power from Satan of course they will persecute His people.

The beast, very clearly, is past, present, and future.

As a whole, it included former kingdoms. The last head does not represent the past. It is a kingdom in the end! It gets destroyed in the end time.After that happens the ten kings receive power as well as the AntiChrist. That is future, not past.

Therefore we conclude that the harlot also represents the wrorld as the centre of antichristian seduction at any moment of history."

There were many antichrists in John's day. Before Jesus came there were kingdoms run by Satan that were anti God's people. Since we are told that Mystery Babylon gets destroyed in the end, that is not past history. That is the final manifestation of that harlot system in the form of a kingdom in the end that gets burned with fire completely. After that happens then the final government/kingdoms rise and rule for the Tribulation till Jesus comes to rule.

So, what kingdom is that today?

 

[KenH]

So, what kingdom is that today?

I don't know what the configuration of various governments by country will be or how much power and influence any country will have at the end, and neither do you.

 

[dad2]

You appear to be WAY too U.S.-centric in the way you read the Bible.

Not at all. I happen to face the facts of what sort of abominations that the US has spread though. What nation do you think it is that spreads abominations and gets wiped off the map in a day? The US sure fits. Who do you claim is a better fit?

Let God take care of the details associated with the second coming of Christ and the establishment of the new heavens and earth wherein dwells righteousness (2 Peter 3:13). God will bring this present heavens and earth to a conclusion as He purposes in the way that He purposes.

What does that have to do with kingdoms prophesied in detail in the end?

I am quite content with knowing that Christ is returning and setting up the new heavens and earth wherein dwells righteousness. As Christ said, "Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble." (Matthew 6:34)

Why pretend that by looking at His word we are fearing? That is a silly strawman.

 

[dad2]

I don't know what the configuration of various governments by country will be or how much power and influence any country will have at the end, and neither do you.

Yes, we have the bible telling us. The kingdom in question will be responsible for deaths all over the world. It will spread abominations as the US has done and does more and more each day. So, if we are nearing the end years, which country better fits the bill?