You mean Mystery Babylon? Well, whoever she is she gets destroyed in the end period. Then the AC and his 10 kings come to rule. So, who do you think it is? I see no better fit than the USA. To think a nation could be controlled from hell is a chilling thought! Ever wonder how Biden gets the notes he reads?
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
USA in Bible Prophesy
- Thread starter dad2
- Start date
You are stumbling over your dispensationalism which refuses to grasp that the Church is Israel. The promises are all for the Church, made up of people from every nation, tribe, and tongue.
We are being tried, purified, and cleansed. God is bringing the Church through tribulation. The Mosaic Covenant God had with Jacob's lineage is finished. It ended at the cross. Modern Israel is an image of antichrist.
You thought that the Jews in Israel that get saved in the very end were the church? It is not me that is struggling!
Some are specific. I do not expect God to gather my relatives from all over the world when He returns and bring them to Israel!
Chapter and verse?
.
Guess they can get in line with most other countries then. Aren't we all stinkers before we get saved?
I believe it was Apostate Jerusalem at the time of Jesus.
Revelation is about 2 women....the harlot...old Jerusalem...the bride New Jerusalem hebrews12:22:29
No. The ten kings and AC did not come to power for their allotted little time after that. No possibility.
Anyone who is saved, is the Church. They are all the children of the Promise, the Israel of God. Read the letter to the Romans.
The children of God will be there. If your relatives are Christians, they will be there.
Jesus brought in the New Covenant with his death. This ended the Old Mosaic Covenant with Israel. Jesus declared it was finished on the cross.
Luke 22:19-20
He took some bread and gave thanks to God for it. Then he broke it in pieces and gave it to the disciples, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this to remember me.” After supper he took another cup of wine and said, “This cup is the new covenant between God and his people—an agreement confirmed with my blood, which is poured out as a sacrifice for you.
John 19:28-30
Jesus knew that his mission was now finished, and to fulfill Scripture he said, “I am thirsty.” A jar of sour wine was sitting there, so they soaked a sponge in it, put it on a hyssop branch, and held it up to his lips. When Jesus had tasted it, he said, “It is finished!” Then he bowed his head and released his spirit.
.
Today's nation of Israel is no different than any other wicked nation ruled by the devil.
We are all stinkers period.
We stand before God because Jesus replaces us before the Father. Jesus intercedes for us. Apart from being in Christ, we are stinkers. This is what makes God's grace so amazing. God chooses to save us, despite our wickedness.
No wicked person ever gets in line to be with Jesus. They always plan their rebellion and opposition. God must break us, just like Paul.
If not for God, you would be applauding the spirit of antichrist and so would I.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Everything about it is vague.
Nations and the kings that rule them have continuously risen and fallen throughout history. A good historian could point to a dozen periods in history that could claim to fulfill part or all of the prophecy in Revelation concerning kings or nations.
peace to you
The time when the AC arises and how long he has to be in power is anything but vague. That happens after Babylon is wiped off the face of the earth in a day. An hour of a day. No historian could point to any time where that happened. One way to check is to see that the ten kings are not in power yet.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
You are taking passages that are clearly intended to be taken symbolically (“Babylon”, horns representing kings, rulers, nations; time periods hours, days) and forcing a literal meaning to them and then speculating as to what modern countries or people might fulfill that misreading of scripture.
Like hundreds if not thousands throughout history before you, your speculation is a waste of time and will likely lead to error if not outright heresy.
Thanks for the conversation
peace to you
]
Babylon traded and made kings rich. Nation's traders in boats watched her burn. Her judgment is seen by those traders who fear, and can never trade there again. This all happens before the ten kings come to power. The smoke rises and is seen. The destruction comes in one hour, one day. That is specified. You could no more spiritualize that wicked end time power, and manifestation of the whore away than you could wave the ten kings who follow this, or the AC away. In fact the heads on the beast we are told they are kingdoms. Seven kingdoms.
Revelation 17:9
And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
Revelation 17:10
And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
.
Babylon traded and made kings rich. Nation's traders in boats watched her burn. Her judgment is seen by those traders who fear, and can never trade there again. This all happens before the ten kings come to power. The smoke rises and is seen. The destruction comes in one hour, one day. That is specified. You could no more spiritualize that wicked end time power, and manifestation of the whore away than you could wave the ten kings who follow this, or the AC away. In fact the heads on the beast we are told they are kingdoms. Seven kingdoms.
Revelation 17:9
And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
Revelation 17:10
And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Like many before you, you try to mask disbelief and waving away Scripture, and a complete lack of understanding as something else. Run along.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Many scholars see the The Roman Empire as “Babylon”. They traded and made nations rich. Rome was burned during various invasions, any of which could fulfill that prophecy including the kings that rose to power after Rome fell.
Great Britain ruled much of the known world and was a prolific trader that was destroyed by the Nazi’s. Everyone saw the country burn. It could easily fulfill this prophecy including the rulers that came afterward.
These are just two of the western countries, but scripture was written in the Middle East. Like so many who follow dispensationalism, you are complexly focused on western civilization, trying to fit it into the prophecy of Revelation which was written in an ancient near East context.
What of Egypt? India? What of modern Iraq? The original Babylon was there. They rose in power in that region, was a major production of oil and was destroyed by Untied Nation forces. Do you remember the oil field fires that burned for weeks and months? That “burning” was seen by all nations and the country has never recovered.
However, other countries in the region have gained in power and influence, including Irani and Saudi Arabia.
These countries are big traders of oil that make many nations rich.
We haven’t even began to discuss China and their continued expansion of power through economics and military strength.
Your ignorance of history, scripture and world events is breathtaking. Luckily, your speculation will deceive relatively few believers.
I’ll “run along” now and leave you to wallow in the mire that is your speculation.
Thanks for the conversation
peace to you
Sorry, the ten kings and antichrist did not come to power for several years when Rome fell.
False. There are still musicans in Britain! Still industry etc. There will not be in Mystery Babylon.
Look anywhere you like there was never any such thing yet.
You would need to be suggesting these might be Babylon. If so, make the case.
For years, I held the view (as did many) that Rome was the seat of the false prophet and the antichrist would rise from the tribe of Dan.
I do not hold that position. Rome is not on mountains, but hills. And Babylon undergoes two destructions. The religion and then the political.
To that end, I consider, that the Babylon of Nebuchadnezzar shall again rise.
I may shift my thinking, but for now, is not the dual political religious make up of the Muslim world centered upon the lands of that once great kingdom?
The Antichrist will have no other ruler or co-ruler. He will use the false prophet and then destroy him, and then the antichrist and that political system will be destroyed.
Almost forgot. America is not found in prophecy. It is either destroyed (for it this hemisphere occupies about a third of the world) or is too weak to even be a figure of support for any cause.
I do not hold that position. Rome is not on mountains, but hills. And Babylon undergoes two destructions. The religion and then the political.
To that end, I consider, that the Babylon of Nebuchadnezzar shall again rise.
I may shift my thinking, but for now, is not the dual political religious make up of the Muslim world centered upon the lands of that once great kingdom?
The Antichrist will have no other ruler or co-ruler. He will use the false prophet and then destroy him, and then the antichrist and that political system will be destroyed.
Almost forgot. America is not found in prophecy. It is either destroyed (for it this hemisphere occupies about a third of the world) or is too weak to even be a figure of support for any cause.
No. Both the false prophet and the antichrist are tossed into the lake of fire together. So no one destroys him before that.
Also, it is not Babylon by Mystery Babylon. That tells us there is more to it than ancient Babylon. The whore in Rev 17 is the same one as in Rev 18, so the destruction is not separate. They both happen just before the ten kings and AC come to power.
Revelation 17:16
And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
Revelation 17:17
For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
Revelation 18:9
And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
Revelation 18:10
Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
So when that kingdom in the end gets destroyed in one hour, there are still kings watching. There is still some time until Jesus returns.
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Your thoughts on who these people are?
Also, is Babylon a system or a country/nation?
I don't know. It does seem that it rides the beast that has all the kingdoms on it. That means when it gets destroyed, it is the end time, since only in the end will all the kingdoms have existed. Mystery Babylon is both a place that trades and corrupts the world and etc, as well as that system that has existed in the various mountains or kingdoms spoken about. Those heads of the beast or kings span all the major kingdoms Daniel mentioned and even a few earlier ones.(Egypt and Assyria probably) The last kingdom or head was Rome. That head will rise again in the end. The AC is considered the prince of that kingdom. The religious aspect of the whore is what we need to be separate from. Since the tower of Babel (that was just before Egypt became a powerful kingdom) the world has worshipped many gods rather than the One True God. That is whoring from God. We are not to partake in that. One interesting thought about the verse you cited is the timing. I think that the Rapture is about the same time that Babylon is burned with fire. So if Jesus comes in the air at the time to take us up, we sure don't receive her horrible plagues. That also fits with Jesus calling us up. 'Come' or 'Come up hither'.
It isn't like all believers could leave the US physically before that. I doubt that is possible. They can keep themselves from the world though in spirit and heart. I would lean toward that interpretation. I hadn't really though about it before the last few days.
At what point will you realize that your speculation is a waste of time?I don't know. It does seem that it rides the beast that has all the kingdoms on it. That means when it gets destroyed, it is the end time, since only in the end will all the kingdoms have existed. Mystery Babylon is both a place that trades and corrupts the world and etc, as well as that system that has existed in the various mountains or kingdoms spoken about. Those heads of the beast or kings span all the major kingdoms Daniel mentioned and even a few earlier ones.(Egypt and Assyria probably) The last kingdom or head was Rome. That head will rise again in the end. The AC is considered the prince of that kingdom. The religious aspect of the whore is what we need to be separate from. Since the tower of Babel (that was just before Egypt became a powerful kingdom) the world has worshipped many gods rather than the One True God. That is whoring from God. We are not to partake in that. One interesting thought about the verse you cited is the timing. I think that the Rapture is about the same time that Babylon is burned with fire. So if Jesus comes in the air at the time to take us up, we sure don't receive her horrible plagues. That also fits with Jesus calling us up. 'Come' or 'Come up hither'.
It isn't like all believers could leave the US physically before that. I doubt that is possible. They can keep themselves from the world though in spirit and heart. I would lean toward that interpretation. I hadn't really though about it before the last few days.
Read Revelation with the view that Jesus is encouraging the Churches that the kingdoms of this world are of no consequence to His Sovereign authority.
Just take in the whole and be encouraged. Your speculation is simply wasted time on your part.
You unbelief is a waste of time. Studying God's word and applying that to today is rightly dividing the word. We were told in half the bible or whatever the percent is to watch and be ready. There is no speculation that the world kingdoms are the heads on the beast in Rev 17 and 18. There is no question that whoever Babylon the Great is, she will be utterly burned and destroyed in a day in the end.
He actually told us He went to prepare a place off this earth for us. He told us that He would return and we would be where He is. The bible tells us that we look for that great hope as the days draw near.
You don't get to disbelieve prophesy and then spam a thread about it with off topic religious nutballism.
Our task is simple. Preach reconciliation to a rebellious world. Nowhere do we find God calling us to spend our time speculating on the future. Today has enough troubles and tomorrow may never be.
2 Corinthians 5:14-21
Either way, Christ’s love controls us. Since we believe that Christ died for all, we also believe that we have all died to our old life. He died for everyone so that those who receive his new life will no longer live for themselves. Instead, they will live for Christ, who died and was raised for them. So we have stopped evaluating others from a human point of view. At one time we thought of Christ merely from a human point of view. How differently we know him now! This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun! And all of this is a gift from God, who brought us back to himself through Christ. And God has given us this task of reconciling people to him. For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting people’s sins against them. And he gave us this wonderful message of reconciliation. So we are Christ’s ambassadors; God is making his appeal through us. We speak for Christ when we plead, “Come back to God!” For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ.
Much of the bible is prophesy. It is for our benefit. Nothing to do with worry. Jesus prophesied a lot. You can ignore most of the bible if you like. This thread is about a specific issue and prophesy. Apparently you can't weigh in intelligently because you do not believe that the prophesies in the glorious last book of the bible deal with the future. Maybe find a thread where your denial and unbelief is topical.