Vaccine mandates on public gatherings.

[Revmitchell]

Businesses demanding people show proof of vaccination would go broke. Employees are quitting alll over the country right now. In Florida they can neither require masks nor vaccine.

The problem isn’t what the employers want to do. The problem is what the government is trying to force the employers to do.

 

[Salty]

You and I have very different definitions of socialism.

okay - what is your definition?

 

[JonC]

Are businesses allowed to check any of the other medical records of their customers?
Let the businesses make a free choice. A coerced choice is not free. What part of what I am saying can you not comprehend?

Medical records are covered under HIPAA. Vaccinations are not.

Public and private schools and colleges are allowed to check vaccination records. So are youth programs and camps. Cruise lines are also allowed to check vaccination records.

I believe you may be confusing "but I want to" with coercion.

 

[Reynolds]

Medical records are covered under HIPAA. Vaccinations are not.

Public and private schools and colleges are allowed to check vaccination records. So are youth programs and camps. Cruise lines are also allowed to check vaccination records.

I believe you may be confusing "but I want to" with coercion.

I am not confusing anything. I am waiting on you to tell me why you think it's IK for the Govt to regulate the grocer but not the mall owner.
You just land where convenient.

 

[Salty]

Medical records are covered under HIPAA. Vaccinations are not.

Public and private schools and colleges are allowed to check vaccination records. So are youth programs and camps. Cruise lines are also allowed to check vaccination records.

I believe you may be confusing "but I want to" with coercion.

John, what have I told you about confusing people with the facts???

 

[JonC]

okay - what is your definition?

Socialism is "a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."

What is being argued is the people (not the man owing the business) should be able to regulate how the business operates.

The biggest danger to our freedom may not be the liberals we see coming but the minority stripping away at the very foundation of liberty under the presence of "my rights".

 

[JonC]

John, what have I told you about confusing people with the facts???

Yea....I'm just a confusing sorta guy

 

[JonC]

I am not confusing anything. I am waiting on you to tell me why you think it's IK for the Govt to regulate the grocer but not the mall owner.
You just land where convenient.

I never said it is OK for the government to regulate a grocer or a mall owner.

I said I believe the federal government exceeds it's authority when it tells a business owner how to conduct business. The exception is in regulations (like FDA approved drugs rather than garage sell dope, health inspections, etc) designed to ensure products are safe. The EPA is also involved with certain industries (like hvac).

But within the confines of the law businesses should operate at the discretion of the business owner - not the desires of the people. This is where capitalism comes in.

I do believe communities have the right to determine what is appropriate in their community (few want a porn shop). And they should have a say when it comes to the safety of their community.

 

[Reynolds]

Yea....I'm just a confusing sorta guy

You admittedly troll and antagonize so much I don't know when to take you serious.

 

[JonC]

You admittedly troll and antagonize so much I don't know when to take you serious.

I can explain. Salty said:

John, what have I told you about confusing people with the facts???

What you are missing is the humor in @Salty 's post.

It is humorous because he said he told me about "confusing" people with "the facts".

There is also a sentiment expressed in the saying.
As a rule, misinformed people do not change their minds once they have been presented with facts that challenge their beliefs.

So I replied:

Yea....I'm just a confusing sorta guy

This means that I am the type of person that offers the truth of the matter even though I know people have already made up their minds.

The green smiley ( ) indicates that my reply was light hearted.

The reason this was not trolling @Salty is because I was replying to his post which was addressing me (by evidence of his post beginning with a quote on my post).

Did that help?

 

[Salty]

JOn, I think you are speaking 1611 Greek

 

[JonC]

JOn, I think you are speaking 1611 Greek

δεν υπάρχει κανένας τόσο τυφλός όσο αυτός που δεν θα δει

 

[Reynolds]

I never said it is OK for the government to regulate a grocer or a mall owner.

I said I believe the federal government exceeds it's authority when it tells a business owner how to conduct business. The exception is in regulations (like FDA approved drugs rather than garage sell dope, health inspections, etc) designed to ensure products are safe. The EPA is also involved with certain industries (like hvac).

But within the confines of the law businesses should operate at the discretion of the business owner - not the desires of the people. This is where capitalism comes in.

I do believe communities have the right to determine what is appropriate in their community (few want a porn shop). And they should have a say when it comes to the safety of their community.

You said they could regulate the mall.

 

[Reynolds]

I can explain. Salty said:



What you are missing is the humor in @Salty 's post.

It is humorous because he said he told me about "confusing" people with "the facts".

There is also a sentiment expressed in the saying.
As a rule, misinformed people do not change their minds once they have been presented with facts that challenge their beliefs.

So I replied:



This means that I am the type of person that offers the truth of the matter even though I know people have already made up their minds.

The green smiley ( ) indicates that my reply was light hearted.

The reason this was not trolling @Salty is because I was replying to his post which was addressing me (by evidence of his post beginning with a quote on my post).

Did that help?

Not at all.

 

[JonC]

You said they could regulate the mall.

I said the local government or state. Nit the federal government.

I think I already told you that I am an advocate for States rights.

It is not my business what other states do. I hope GA stays cool because I live across the river from Augusta. But I have no say so because I live in SC.

 

[JonC]

Not at all.

I don't know how else to explain it....except maybe that the conversation was between @Salty and me.

 

[Reynolds]

I don't know how else to explain it....except maybe that the conversation was between @Salty and me.

That ain't even the conversation I was referring to.

 

[Dave G]

I am saying you do not have the right to take away another man's liberty just to get your way.

That works both ways, doesn't it, Jon?
In America, as in other parts of the world, one set of "liberties" are often traded for others.

For example, in some American states that have anti-abortion laws ( that won't last long, will it? ), women demonstrate in favor of "my body, my choice";
Yet many of those very same women ( and men ) who support abortion, seem to agree with vaccine mandates being imposed upon the entire populace in order to ease their fears of dying from something that has essentially defied control since it started.

In effect, they oppose others who say, "my body, my choice" when it comes to mandatory vaccinations for CoVID-19.

So... on the one side, we have some people who support murdering their unborn children as a "freedom",
and enforcing mandatory vaccinations ( in any form or scope ) as being the only way forward to economic "freedom";

On the other side, we have some who seem to support giving the unborn the right to decide their freedom,
and opposing mandatory vaccinations as "medical freedom".


People are taking away other's liberties no matter which direction things go.

 

[Dave G]

*On a side note:
If asked, I would stop short of characterizing Pfizer's, Moderna's and Johnson and Johnson's products as "vaccines", but rather what I believe that they are...
"genetic manipulation" based on biotechnology that has, until recently, not even been used to make any widely-available medicines of any type, that I know of.
The tangled history of mRNA vaccines

In addition and as far as I am aware, up until this past year ( 2020 ), these mRNA and DNA technologies hadn't even been widely tested on human beings,
and to me they still exist as experimental "vaccines" in which the general public, all over the world, was made an unwitting accomplice in their development and distribution.

 

[Dave G]

To continue my above:

What were regarded by Americans as a set of unwritten ( and written ) rules regarding the protection of personal freedoms, is vanishing rapidly in favor of edging towards a form of totalitarianism because of...

Fear.

Fear of dying from a virus that has, historically, resisted being controlled for over 18 months now,
and in all probability will continue to defy science... as well as ruin economies if governments keep up their "containment" policies.

Liberty, the American way, is dying, whether or not anyone wants to admit it.

If Americans want it what way, then it's up to them to amend their own Constitution that gives the federal government its power on behalf of the states,
or to sit back and watch it be taken from them by people who don't care if it's taken away.

Myself, I'm an observer caught in the middle who happens to like my personal freedoms in this life.
If they disappear, then I'll have to get used to a new set of rules for the remainder of it.


Either way,
Would someone please let me know when an agreement is made?