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Verses that PROVE Definite Atonement

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by King James Bond:

You are so far out of whack it is impossible to reason with you.

Why?

Because to ...

<obligatory pointless ranting deleted here>
KJB - I posted the text of John 1 showing Christ enlightening EVERY MAN.

I posted the text of John 12:32 showing Christ drawing ALL MANKIND to Himself

I posted John 16 showing God "CONVICTING THE WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment".

I have pointed out that these support the Gospel claim that God ACTUALLY "SO LOVED THE WORLD that HE GAVE"

I have also pointed out that BOTH Arminians AND 3 point Calvinists "GET IT".

These facts are objective, irrefutable, obvious and impossible to obfuscate or misdirect.

You seem to have given up on "the inconvenient facts of scripture" and settled for "ranting against me" instead.

I understand why you might choose such tactics given the position those texts leave you in --

But don't blame me for your own choices.

Just live with them as you wish.

In Christ,

Bob
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
KJB -- in my previous post I too was somewhat blunt. Hopefully you can understand the need to simply come directly to the point.

In Christ,

Bob
 

King James Bond

New Member
AllaboutGrace, BobRyan,

I have been through this circle stuff of Bobs before.

Bob and I have gone around and around before on so many things. If there is anything Bob does do....is makes me hold on deeper to my convictions!

It gets to the point where I simply stop reading the things he posts because we have been there already.

I am also as a brick!

Examples;

KJB - I posted the text of John 1 showing Christ enlightening EVERY MAN.
Well then WHY may I ask is it that some people are NOT enlightened? I guess He wants to save people but just does not have the real "umph" needed to enlighten people with enough light?

Maybe some are left in their own state of loving darkness instead of light! Duh!

I posted the text of John 12:32 showing Christ drawing ALL MANKIND to Himself
Well then why is it ALL men are not drawn to Him? If people are already willing (from free-will) then God does not even need to draw them. And if people are not willing (because of free-will) what is the use of God drawing people to Him if He can't get them to come?

What is the point of His effort in drawing if it has no REAL effect? He would only need to draw the unwilling........why? Because the willing need no drawing! And if His draw of the unwilling still leaves all those millions unwilling......It's not much of a draw there now is it! Wow.....what an awesome display of power drawing the willing! Duh again!

I posted John 16 showing God "CONVICTING THE WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment".
Wow thats brilliant! The world is made of sinners! I suppose all fall short of the glory of God. Too bad some never see their sin!

Blinders are left on so many as they see their own hearts and minds are so good in coming to Christ. Yes....those that pat themselves on their backs and glory in their OWN wisdom, effort, and will as the source of them coming to Christ are blinded. They will one day be convicted of such sin. What sin is that? Glory in themselves as the deciding factor of salvation.

No one will boast in the presence of the LORD GOD!

Duh again.

I have pointed out that these support the Gospel claim that God ACTUALLY "SO LOVED THE WORLD that HE GAVE"
If Bob would lay off the caffiene and chill out long enough to read all of John.......he might.....just might.....figure out that those born of the Spirit are born "not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God".

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he can not see the kingdom of God."

I know God loved......He loved enough to actually SAVE people. There was no CHANCE involved. He shall save His people from their sins.

and on earth peace to those on whom His favor rests. What kind of peace is that? The peace the world has to offer? Or peace with God!

These facts are objective, irrefutable, obvious and impossible to obfuscate or misdirect.

You seem to have given up on "the inconvenient facts of scripture" and settled for "ranting against me" instead.

I understand why you might choose such tactics given the position those texts leave you in --

But don't blame me for your own choices.

Just live with them as you wish.
Now you just keep on crediting yourself and your wonderful heart and free-will as the deciding factor of your salvation.

I will continue to thank the LORD for everything and anything invloved in mine.

Ok? And by the way, thanks for dropping in!

Like I said earlier...may God bless you.

KJB




See, I am sending an angel before you,to guard you on the way and bring you to the place I have prepared.
 

King James Bond

New Member
AllaboutGrace,

You are correct.....I will attempt to converse calmly.

One of the points Bob wishes to make over and over in so many of the threads is that God wants to save ALL people excluding none at all.

So Bob starts with that premise as his view and attempts to build on it.

He uses things like;

KJB - I posted the text of John 1 showing Christ enlightening EVERY MAN.
Now my point would be what was the purpose to "enlighten" every person? I would think that if God wants to save every person the point in "enlightenment" would be so they could see Him with a new nature of focus. Enlightenment is light, not dark.

So if God enlightened every man.....why are there (how ever many there are) those that are not enlightened?

Does He not have enough power to shine light in men? I say He not only has the power......He does shine light in men.....with the effect of saving them! Bobs word usage of all men needs to be taken in context of all the men that have light shined in them.

And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness,"made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ .

So have unbelievers been enlightened? Bob may think they are, but I would hardly call unbelief light!

The simple fact of the matter is that if God does not command the light to shine in a persons heart......the heart remains dark.....and the person remains dark willingly!

The person loves darkness.....the person is not being forced to do anything that a darkened sinner would not do by nature. God is not forcing them not to come to Him.

He just does not save them and He leaves them in their natural corrupt state and condition.

They will receive justice from God unless He has mercy on them and saves them. If He does not save them it is also just.

It is not tyranical for people to get their wages......it is just. God designed how things would be...not me. He is the One that declares sinners will be punished in Hell.

He is the One who has ALL the right to carry out whatever He finds in Himself to carry out. It is His creation...not ours.

If He has mercy on some that is also His right. Everything belongs to Him to do with as He wills.

He killed every firstborn in Egypt......many of the firstborn were probably little infants capable of doing nothing more than crying, sleeping, eating, and soiling themselves!

I say it is fair that He killed them without their consent, approval, knowledge, or any other reason than He willed to do so. Why would I say that? Because everything belongs to HIM to do as He wills.

He made it all, He sustains it all, and He can bless it or curse it all as He wills. And that does not make Him a tyrant...He is God and there is no other!

He also does not force people to come to Him with some sort of power that Ray speaks about. He simply lifts the veil of darkness from dark sinners and frees them from the grip of Satan.

"To save us ALL from Satan's power when we had gone astray" ALL who? ALL people? No.....ALL those saved from Satans power.

Read the text above again......who do we preach about? Ourselves? Our hearts? Our wisdom in choosing better than others? Our minds? Do we pat ourselves on the back for anything at all?

No! For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness,"made his light shine in our hearts.......

So these people that love commending themselves are most certainly fooled.

KJB
 

Ray Berrian

New Member
God enlightens every human being coming into the world about His being. They can see His handiwork in the earth and in the stars and sun. Not all sinners have the advantage of reading or hearing from the Bible. His purpose in 'light every one coming into the world' is so at the judgment they all will be without excuse.

Probably few will obey the light they have been given without hearing from the Word of God.

Nevertheless, God says that He came to save all lost sinners. [John 1:7 & I John 2:2], for starting portions that explain the love and justice of the Lord God.
 

Frogman

<img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
Good Morning Brother Ray,

It is good to see you again.

I also would suggest that we add to your referenced vss. above [John 1:7 & I John 2:2] Matthew 1:21.

Hope you have a blessed day in the Lord.

Bro. Dallas Eaton
 

King James Bond

New Member
Ray,

You continue to build on sand.

God enlightens every human being coming into the world about His being. They can see His handiwork in the earth and in the stars and sun. Not all sinners have the advantage of reading or hearing from the Bible. His purpose in 'light every one coming into the world' is so at the judgment they all will be without excuse.
There you go again......

I suppose that babies that have been pulled 90% out of a mothers womb only to have scissors thrust through their skulls to have their brains sucked out can see all this handiwork while they look at the sunshine, stars, and earth?

I say God saves! Period! He can save Men, women, and babies.

It is the grace of God that saves. Belief is a fruit or product of salvation.

Yes indeed! God may even save babies if He wills to do so...and He does not have to do so.

And these babies are born with a sin nature just as you and I are.

Ray,....I beg of you to stop and think.....look at your post to me before......think of your mindset.

May the Lord have mercy on men like you when you stand before the Lord on His judgment day.
Don't you get it? You were right on! Right on target! 100 percent accurate!

That is what we need in the entire salvation process.....His mercy.

I am confident that He that has begun this good work within me will finish it.

There will not be one thing that people will be able to boast, brag, or make claim to in heaven........except Him! He will be the ONLY ONE we can boast about.

We can boast of His mercy.

Now take the same statement that you applied to me and apply it to you.

If you have done that you are still on target!

Now know this.....if you have come to the foot of the cross and turned to Jesus Christ for mercy it is there you will find it.

And if you find yourself there.......you can rest assured it is God that has brought you there to Him.

Hope that helps.

KJB
 

Ray Berrian

New Member
If you all meean by Matthew 1:21 that Christians are known by their 'fruit coming from the Spirit' in their lives, I agree with you. The Lord wants purity of life in His people as noted also in I Peter 1:15 & 16.

Saved people work at keeping their lives free from sinning.

If you are suggesting that the Apostle John was wrong in I John 2:2, then I will stand on his truth coming from the Lord that Jesus paid for the sins of all of His lost creation of human beings.

Believing in Christ is the axis point in our lives that takes us out of darkness and places us in the Kingdom of God, as the sons and daughters born of the Light.
 

whetstone

<img src =/11288.jpg>
Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
If you are suggesting that the Apostle John was wrong in I John 2:2, then I will stand on his truth coming from the Lord that Jesus paid for the sins of all of His lost creation of human beings.
Did Jesus pay for the sins of the fallen angels? If not, are you limiting the atonement? God bless.

Dan
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
God enlightens every human being coming into the world about His being. They can see His handiwork in the earth and in the stars and sun. Not all sinners have the advantage of reading or hearing from the Bible. His purpose in 'light every one coming into the world' is so at the judgment they all will be without excuse.

Probably few will obey the light they have been given without hearing from the Word of God.

Nevertheless, God says that He came to save all lost sinners. [John 1:7 & I John 2:2], for starting portions that explain the love and justice of the Lord God.
Excellent points Ray!

1John 2:2 shows that Christ died for ALL and 1John 4:14 continues that same point by telling us that God "Sent His Son to be the SAVIOR OF THE WORLD"

What a wonderful way to point out that "God so Loved the WORLD that HE GAVE" and so we fully expect this of the God that "IS NOT WILLING for ANY to perish but for ALL to come to repentance!" 2Peter 3!!

You also make a good point in John 1 about Christ enlightening every one of mankind!

Those are powerful Bible based -- irrefutable points!

In Christ,

Bob
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by King James Bond:

I am also as a brick!

Examples;

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />KJB - I posted the text of John 1 showing Christ enlightening EVERY MAN.
Well then WHY may I ask is it that some people are NOT enlightened?
</font>[/QUOTE]This is an example of how Calvinism tries to refute scripture using circular logic.

In an effort to prove that mankind does NOT have free will to reject the light that God SAYS HE sends to everyman - Calvinists ask WHY IS it that some do not exhibit "enlightenment" AS IF the ARminian principle proposed must first be ASSUMED out of existence so as to make a Calvinist argument!!!???

How in the world can you start an argument ASSUMING that Calvinism is true - and the GIVEN that it is true ask how is it that ARminianism is to be proven? What kind of argument is that KJB!!

Answer: A circular one!!

You must START with the objective point -- the BIBLE (not just Arminians) is saying that GOD Enlightens EVERY ONE of mankind in John 1:8-10.

The BIBLE "not just ARminians" is saying that He "CONVICTS THE WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" John 16:8-12.

You can not pose a challenge AS IF only Arminians say that??!!!

OR is it your intent to challenge scripture itself and argue "how can we BELIEVE the scripture IF WE START BY ASSUMING the CAlvinist idea that ALL are NOT enlightened because God does not really do that"

Use objective, compelling, logical, valid arguments KJB -- that approach will always work much better.

In Christ,

Bob
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
I posted the text of John 12:32 showing Christ drawing ALL MANKIND to Himself
KJB
Well then why is it ALL men are not drawn to Him?
Hmm the Bible says they ARE but KJV says lets all START by assuming THEY AREN't (no matter what that inconvenient text of scripture says) AND THEN use that to challenge the text!!

What a hoot!

Now Lets go back to scripture.

THEY ARE DRAWN to God!!

That is the STARTING point.

If you want to object to it you can THEN ask "WHy don't I see enough FRUIT from that drawing of ALL MANKIND to make Calvinists happy to accept the truth of that text".

And if that is the point you are trying to make then fine - lets discuss it.

But simply starting EACH of your arguments by ASSUMING scripture is false - is hardly worth pursuing as it is a totally bogus basis for a start!

In Christ,

Bob
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
KJV

If people are already willing (from free-will) then God does not even need to draw them.
That is certainly a rational argument - but it is NEVER the argument that Arminians make and is not one that Calvinists promote (they only attack it as a strawman).

But attacking a view that NEITHER SIDE holds -- is a bogus way to promote Calvinism!

Why go there KJV??

KJV
And if people are not willing (because of free-will) what is the use of God drawing people to Him if He can't get them to come?
Again you are "making up" the Arminian argument instead of READING IT as it is being posted. Why go to your own "imagination" for the Arminian argument when it is being posted here for you to refute. Just USE IT and debunk it instead of making up your own brand of Arminianism to "bebunk".

In this case the Arminian argument is that the DRAWING of John 12:32 -- the SUPERNATURAL drawing is what ENABLES the ability to CHOOSE that total depravity DISABLES. (IF you were paying attention you would ahve noted that this is the SAME ARGUMENT that CAlvinists have made from John 12:32).

The DIFFERENCE has never been that the sides Don't think this John 12:32 fully ENABLES choice that depravity disables -- rather the REPEATED DIFFERENCE has ALWAYS been that the Calvinists DO NOT BELIEVE the text when it says that the drawing applies TO ALL -- the "unqualified ALL".

Your complaint that the ALL were ENABLED WITHOUT THE DRAWING - is NOT the claim of Arminianism. - So you simply attack a straw man when you go there.

Get it??

What is the point of His effort in drawing if it has no REAL effect?
Enabling choice is REALLY EFFECTIVE in enabling Choice. But you want to "redefine effect" by saying that IF a free will agent CHOOSES in a way that you do not like then the ENABLEMENT of their CHOICE was not effective. You say the same about the DRAWING of God that ENABLES that choice -- "redefining it" as if "FAILURE TO COMPEL COMPLIANCE would be inneffective".

But that definition of "Effective" is only valid in the narrow robot world of Calvinism. How can you use such a redefinition as an objective argument here?

(Though I think Calvinists would go for such tactics in a heartbeat)

In Christ,

Bob
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
BobRyan said --

I posted John 16 showing God "CONVICTING THE WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment".
KJV said

Wow thats brilliant! The world is made of sinners!
Well at least we agree on something. I am glad you can see that.

KJV

I suppose all fall short of the glory of God. Too bad some never see their sin!
You mean "too bad God does NOT convict some of sin"???

Is that the "ASSUMED STARTING POINT" to "God Convicts the WORLD of SIN"???

Again - by assuming at the start that the text is wrong and then claiming that failed assumption as a GIVEN -- you try to challenge the text ITSELF even before you get to the Arminian view that quotes it!!

Why use such failed methods KJV? Only a Calvinist reader would go along with it!!

(And I think we see some of them doing that here on this thread)

KJV said --
No one will boast in the presence of the LORD GOD!
See - a bit of light remains in there for you still! It is a good sign that you see that!

In Christ,

Bob
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by King James Bond:

If God enlightens to save.......why does it not save?

What was the point of enlightenment to save if it has not enlightened people to save them?
Works for robots - and if you take the myopic approach of ignoring all the salient points of the ARminian argument opposing your view - you "could" just keep reposting your initial question.

But as has already been stated - God's enlightement DOES save just like a teacher's instruction DOES educate. That does not mean that ALL students CHOOSE to accept the benefit.

You know -- "real life"!!

In Christ,

Bob
 

King James Bond

New Member
Bob,

"Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth ."

http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0074.htm

I suppose you just got back from space travel? You sure are quick!

Were you searching to and fro in all the places and powers of the universe?

I suppose you have been behind every nook and cranny in the entire universe and find there are no powers affecting the wills of people?

Hey everybody.....Bob claims men have free-will! Listen to master Bob!

We can be certain now because Bob said so!

If anybody can see all things Bob can!

I suppose now you are certain there are no forces affecting the wills of people?

Because of course we know Bob can see all things visible and invisible! What awesome power you have!

I still continue to thank God and only God for salvation. I find He is deserving of all praise.

For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness," is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.

You just keep thanking yourself and your intelligence in learning so well! Oh how smart Bob you are! You clever ole guy! You are so wise and clever for choosing God. Boast Bob boast!

I suppose that back of yours can take a whole lot of patting! Boast Bob boast!

For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God .

For it is written,

"I WILL DESTROY THE WISDOM OF THE WISE,
AND THE CLEVERNESS OF THE CLEVER I WILL SET ASIDE."

Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom;

but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness,

but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble;

but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong ,

and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are ,

so that no man may boast before God.

But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus , who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."

Do you really think God is going to sit there and listen to you tell Him you chose Him?

Sure looks like God did alot of choosing there doesn't it?

I don't seem to see much boasting of Bob in that text? But of course you are wiser than those that do not choose Christ! Of course you are!

Thank yourself Bob! And as you are praising yourself don't forget to thank yourself some more.

Your heart was most certainly in the right place! How wonderful and clear your mind is to see! How blessed God is to have you!

Boast Bob boast!

KJB

[ October 31, 2005, 06:33 AM: Message edited by: King James Bond ]
 

jarhed

New Member
Mat 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few [are] chosen.

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar 2:17 When Jesus heard [it], he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Mar 4:11,12 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and [their] sins should be forgiven them.

Mar 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Mar 14:24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

Luk 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Jhn 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

Jhn 10:15,16 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd.

Jhn 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

Jhn 11:50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

Jhn 11:51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

Jhn 13:1 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

Jhn 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Jhn 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Rom 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to [the will of] God.

Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Rom 8:33,34 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? [It is] God that justifieth. Who [is] he that condemneth? [It is] Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

2Cr 5:21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Gal 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree:

Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Eph 1:4-7 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

2Ti 2:11 [It is] a faithful saying: For if we be dead with [him], we shall also live with [him]:

Tts 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Hbr 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Hbr 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Daniel Allen
www.spurgeon.us

PS- you can find my entire list of verses (over 600!) that prove the doctrines of grace here. God bless you all! [/QB][/QUOTE]
 

jarhed

New Member
Let's start with Matt.20:28 To compare scripture with scripture lets go to Romans 5. See v. 15. Through the offense many are dead. Well, all were dead in trespasses and sin because of Adams sin (v12), so obviously MANY here means all! About 7.5 Billion so far. So to, in v. 16 the free gift was of MANY offences.......ALLLLLLLLL offences. Many can be all. That is just Bible. And the crowning Jewel, staying in context and allowing scripture to interpret scripture we see vs. 18! Because of ADAM judgement came upon all men (but some WILL not be judged), and because of CHRIST the FREE GIFT came upon ALL MEN (but some will not believe). This also applies to Matt. 6:28 and many other verses that some folks tend to give a PRIVATE interpretation to. WORD STUDY, and CONTEXT are vital...otherwise we have heresy.
 
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