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Very sad commentary on the church today

J

just-want-peace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
matt wade said:
A fly can drown in honey too. If you aren't preaching the consequences of sin, people don't know what they need saving from. Without knowing the consequence of sin there is no salvation.
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And without knowing what sin is, and where/how it originated, and how it impacts us, "--they don't what they need saving from" - NOR WHY.

It's truly amazing the problems that result from deciding that "God didn't really say ---"!!:BangHead::BangHead::BangHead::BangHead:
 
S

saturneptune

New Member
Allan said:
So Paul's example is that he has the right to be paid but chose not to be for their spiritual benifit, BUT he received from other churches 'wages' to help him while he was there (he said 'robbing') till that particular church grew up enough spiritualy to willingly pay the minister of the gospel.
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Do you happen to know whether or not they took out Social Security?

Another thread about who should and should not be paid in a church would probably be a good idea.

Hell is not preached near as much as it used to be. It comes up in sermons as Jim said. One of the best sermons I ever heard on hell was talking to 99% of the Christians who never witness or go on visitation. The speaker said if our souls could be transported to the full fury of hell for just one minute, when we got back, we would be running, not walking to tell people about Jesus.
 
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Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
When the Bible is just a book of words it is not difficult to rely on the wisdom of man in regards to which doctrine to preach in the church. Saying "you get more flies with honey" lacks any true understanding to the situation. We are not reaching out to mindless flies but men with consciences who are pricked by God and who needs to hear the whole gospel. Those who avoid hell are only serving their own emotional desires and the result is the true gospel is withheld for the world. It is impossible to know what grace is unless you understand what hell it. When you withhold hell from the lost you withhold the knowledge of the wrath of God, the justice of God, therefore you cannot grasp the love of God.

Any gospel that is empty of hell is another gospel that serves only to fill the pews with crowds rather than the church of Christ.
 
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Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
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grainofwheat said:
Notice verses 6/12/18 in 1 COR 9 :1-18.
Paul acknowledges the right to earn money from his labor in the gospel but STILL WORKS. He received money [support] from other churches but still WORKED in Corinth.[Acts 18:1-3]

We have rights and can choose not to exercise them to advance a cause and in this case advance the Gospel.
Sunday School teachers do this every week around the world when they present the gospel without charge.
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Let me guess, you are part of the house church movement?
 
G

grainofwheat

New Member
Revmitchell said:
Let me guess, you are part of the house church movement?
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No sir, just part of the truth movement.

This thread is not about me but expressed reasons why the "church" doesn't preach on hell anymore.
I simply stated that ONE of the reasons why is money and I'll stick to that.

You cited 1 Tim 5:17 as support for why pastors should be paid and I cited that the same verse includes Sunday School teachers.
[ The word is ELDERS- plural]


Paul warns the young Timothy of this very thing [money] causing people to stray from the faith.
[ 1 Tim 6:10 ]

One of your previous statements is dead on that ALL ministers of the gospel should be trusting Jesus for their provisions and not man.
Unfortunately many times this does not happen in the pulpit and the roadsides are full of casualties of these actions.

Because of Paul's warning in 1 TIM 6 :10 it is still my view that many [not all] professional pastors have an EXTRA TEMPTATION of maintaining the contributions and will not preach on "difficult" topics of hell and judgement risking the loss of contributions.

If you are a professional pastor I wish God's very best blessings for you and your ministry.
 
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Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
grainofwheat said:
No sir, just part of the truth movement.

This thread is not about me but expressed reasons why the "church" doesn't preach on hell anymore.
I simply stated that ONE of the reasons why is money and I'll stick to that.

You cited 1 Tim 5:17 as support for why pastors should be paid and I cited that the same verse includes Sunday School teachers.
[ The word is ELDERS- plural]


Paul warns the young Timothy of this very thing [money] causing people to stray from the faith.
[ 1 Tim 6:10 ]

One of your previous statements is dead on that ALL ministers of the gospel should be trusting Jesus for their provisions and not man.
Unfortunately many times this does not happen in the pulpit and the roadsides are full of casualties of these actions.

Because of Paul's warning in 1 TIM 6 :10 it is still my view that many [not all] professional pastors have an EXTRA TEMPTATION of maintaining the contributions and will not preach on "difficult" topics of hell and judgement risking the loss of contributions.

If you are a professional pastor I wish God's very best blessings for you and your ministry.
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The failures of men do not determine doctrine. And demeaning full time pastors resolves nothing. Scripture is clear regardless of how many or how often men (pastors) fail.
 
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saturneptune

New Member
Revmitchell said:
The failures of men do not determine doctrine. And demeaning full time pastors resolves nothing. Scripture is clear regardless of how many or how often men (pastors) fail.
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Full time pastors are called by the Lord. It is a responsibility that weighs on their shoulders at times and very seldom do they complain. They listen to everyone else's problems with very little thanks. Absent some Biblical reason, the deacons and congregation should be holding the pastor and his family up to the Lord for stength and wisdom to guide his flock. Pastors are way underpaid for the job they have. My hat is off to them. God bless all of them.

For the two on this thread that belittle the work of pastors and the local church, both of you ought to hang your heads in shame.
 
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Magnetic Poles

New Member
People should come to god out of love, not out of terrorist threats. Also, hell could well be a metaphor, not a literal torture chamber.
 
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ray Marshall

New Member
grainofwheat said:
It is my guess a lot of pastors are afraid of "offending" the faithful and losing numbers including the largest financial contributors.

It is a shame that the church in America has so many "professional" pastors that rely on the giving of the flock for their livelihood.
A pastor that provides his own financial support is less likely afraid to preach about hell and other social evils in the church and in the world.

Most "church going" Americans want a feel good sermon on Sunday and then go home and live their lives as they desire the rest of the week.

What in the "world" is wrong with the church in America ???

It closely resembles the world.
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In view of this topic, when people are taught that they either will go to heaven or hell, according to which ever they choose, you are robbing GOD of his glory. It goes like this. GOD is voting for you, Satan is voting for you and you are stronger than either because you have the decisive vote. To much imphesis are put on Man and not GOD. The Scriptures are for the born again man, not for the un-elect. They are happy where they are and the Scriptures means nothing to them. It gives them nothing and it takes away nothing. GOD is the Judge and he gives life to whosoever he will. Read again over and over and over about Jacob and Esau. If you still don't get it, read it over and over and over and over and over until it sinks in. There lies the answer. GOD choses, not Man.
 
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ray Marshall

New Member
HankD said:
Hmm, Kentucky and he is a deacon in a Baptist church?

Is it a Primitive Baptist church? There are many in the Appalachians.

There is a PBC group called the "no-hellers (which is a misnomer)" who, though they don't deny the reality of hell, do not believe it is forever:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primitive_Baptist_Universalist

There are three different orders of the Primitive Baptist, because I am one, I can explain the differences of belief in some of the Primitives.
Some believe in Absolute predestnation: they belief that whatever happens no matter how good or how bad that it has to happen just exactly like everything does. For instance today I am writing this because GOD predestinated it to be, I couldn't help but write this message and every topic on this Baptist Board has already been predestinated by GOD. I guess you could say," Couldn't help it" if I wrote this.
Another group are known as the, "No Hellers." That would make Hell a non-existant place. All go to heaven regardless of what they do, either good or bad. The group I am affiliated with believe that both Heaven and Hell both exist and there wil;l be a place for the Devil and his angels. We belive in as much as most folks know as the TULIP Doctrine by interputation of the Scriptures. TULIP doctrine is not a bad belief because it is upheld in the Scriptures. so there is three different Primitive Baptist and they separate themselves to one of the three mentioned in my post.
HankD
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The above is how you separate each group shown here.
 
Tom Bryant

Tom Bryant

Well-Known Member
MP,
Yes, I do take it literally... If that's a fault (and I am certain that it is not) then I am certain that God will make that clear. But I trust Jesus' views rather than yours. If that makes me a fundamentalist, then I would proudly wear that label.
 
Bro. Curtis

Bro. Curtis

<img src =/curtis.gif>
Site Supporter
Jesus himself preached repentance or eternal damnation is hell. And he was pretty clear that torment would be the order of the day, there. I guess that makes him a terrorist ?

I would like some explanation of this "come to God out of love" statement, as well. I don't know what that means.
 
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