Walter Martin points out that the Adventist denomination is not a cult. Continued

[One Baptism]

So you are saying "forgiveness revoked" is not an SDA held belief?

Give me one example, just one, of any denomination or sect preaching "forgiveness revoked" and we will take it from there.

Just one? Ok:

John Wesley [Methodist] Commentary on Matthew 18:34 -

"... How observable is this whole account; as well as the great inference our Lord draws from it: The debtor was freely and fully forgiven; He wilfully and grievously offended; His pardon was retracted, the whole debt required, and the offender delivered to the tormentors for ever. And shall we still say, but when we are once freely and fully forgiven, our pardon can never be retracted? Verily, verily, I say unto you, So likewise will my heavenly Father do to you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses. ..."​

Matthew Henry [Non-Conformist] Commentary [read carefully please] on Matthew 18:21-35 -

"... here is forgiveness with God for the greatest sins, if they be repented of. Though the debt was vastly great, he forgave it all, Mat_18:32. Though our sins be very numerous and very heinous, yet, upon gospel terms, they may be pardoned. [3.] The forgiving of the debt is the loosing of the debtor; He loosed him. The obligation is cancelled, the judgment vacated; we never walk at liberty till our sins are forgiven. But observe, Though he discharged him from the penalty as a debtor, he did not discharge him from his duty as a servant. The pardon of sin doth not slacken, but strengthen, our obligations to obedience; and we must reckon it a favour that God is pleased to continue such wasteful servants as we have been in such a gainful service as his is, and should therefore deliver us, that we might serve him, Luk_1:74. I am thy servant, for thou hast loosed my bonds. ...

(2.) How he revoked his pardon and cancelled the acquittance, so that the judgment against him revived (Mat_18:34); He delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. ..."​

The Pulpit Commentary [Rev. Joseph S. Exell and Henry Donald Maurice Spence-Jones] on Matthew 18:21-25 -

"... Christ’s teaching on this point has even a severe side—even his forgiveness may be revoked, if he finds, by our behaviour after forgiveness, that we were morally unfitted to receive it.—R.T. ..."
​

Jospeh Benson [Methodist] Commentary on Matthew 18:34 -

"... Who in like manner acknowledged his debt, and promised payment, showing thee, in his supplication, though thine equal, as much respect as thou showedst to me, thy lord and king? And his lord was wroth — Was exceedingly enraged; and delivered him to the tormentors — Not only revoked the grant of remission which he had just before made, as forfeited by so vile a behaviour; but put him in prison, commanding him to be there fettered and scourged; till he should pay all that was due unto him — That is, without any hope of release, for the immense debt which he owed he could never be able to pay. ..."
​

Preacher's Homiletical [Commentary]:

"... Mat_18:23-35. The unforgiving temper.—There is a fine story illustrative of this parable, told by Fleury (Hist. Eccles., 5:2, p. 334). It is briefly this: Between two Christians at Antioch enmity and division had fallen out; after a while one of them desired to be reconciled, but the other, who was a priest, refused. While it was thus with them, the persecution of Valerian began; and Sapricius, the priest, having boldly confessed himself a Christian, was on the way to death. Nicephorus met him, and again sued for peace, which was again refused. While he was seeking, and the other refusing, they arrived at the place of execution. He that should have been the martyr was here terrified, offered to sacrifice to the gods, and, despite the entreaties of the other, did so, making shipwreck of his faith; while Nicephorus, boldly confessing, stepped in his place, and received the crown which Sapricius lost. This whole story runs finely parallel with our parable. Before Sapricius could have had grace to confess thus to Christ, he must have had his own ten thousand talents forgiven; but, refusing to forgive a far lesser wrong, to put away the displeasure he had taken up on some infinitely lighter grounds against his brother, he forfeited all the advantages of his position, his Lord was angry, took away from his grace, and suffered him again to fall under those powers of evil from which he had once been delivered. It comes out, too, in this story, that it is not merely the outward wrong and outrage upon a brother, which constitutes a likeness to the unmerciful servant, but the unforgiving temper, even apart from all such.—Archbishop Trench. ..."
​

Ellicott's [Charles John, English Christian] Commentary on Matthew 18:35 -

"... Do also unto you.--The words cut through the meshes of many theological systems by which men have deceived themselves. Men have trusted in the self-assurance of justification, in the absolving words of the priest, as though they were final and irreversible. The parable teaches that the debt may come back. If faith does not work by love, it ceases to justify. If the man bind himself once again to his old evil nature, the absolution is annulled. The characters of the discharge are traced (to use another similitude) as in sympathetic ink, and appear or disappear according to the greater or less glow of the faith and love of the pardoned debtor. ..."
​

Coffman's [James Burton, Church of Christ] Commentaries on the Bible Matthew 18:21-35 -

"... The forgiveness the king extended to the unmerciful sinner was total, complete, and uncluttered with any penalties whatsoever. It would also have been permanent if the servant's conduct had not led to its revocation. That he later fell into condemnation was not due to any quality lacking in the full and free pardon that he received, but was due to his later conduct. ..."​

 

[steaver]

as a denomination we fully accept the teaching of Christ in Matthew 18 on "forgiveness revokes" as well as the teaching of Paul in Romans 11 on salvation revoked and also found in Hebrews 6 and in Ezek 18 and in Christ's statement in John 15 and in Paul's teaching in 1Cor 6 etc.

As any astute bible student can plainly see, "forgiveness revoked" is you quoting you. Nowhere in Scripture will you find your quote, it is made up by you. What we will find is a King's seal cannot be revoked...

“Now you write to the Jews as you see fit, in the king's name, and seal it with the king's signet ring; for a decree which is written in the name of the king and sealed with the king's signet ring may not be revoked.” (Est 8:8)

Jesus Christ our King and God has placed a seal on His own...

"Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge." (1Cor 1:21-22)

Not only will you NOT find your made up quote anywhere in all of Scripture, you WILL find a quote with "irrevocable"...

"for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable" (Ro 11:29)

Hope all the colors and emphasis's help you out, I know how you like to think they do so maybe they will help you out as well. But as anyone can see, you quoting you carries no weight. We like to quote the actual bible, which fortunately for you (prayerfully for your own good), totally wrecks the SDA made up quote of "forgiveness revoked".

 

[BobRyan]

Our Catholic friends frequently get presented with the problem of "tradition of man" vs "sola scriptura testing".

Well here is a topic where they might want to point that out.

Because OSAS does not surive the test of "Sola Scriptura"


Matthew 18 is specifically about forgiveness revoked.

32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him. 35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”

Indeed -- Christ shows us the "fully forgiven" about whom it is said "I forgave you ALL" and yet due to subsequent actions of the "fully forgiven" -- they experience forgiveness revoked. until he should pay all that was due

Question for the reader -- In your POV is there such a thing as "Salvation where you pay your own debt of sin" -- having been "forgiven all" he then had to "repay all".. OR is Christ simply mistaken in your POV?

OSAS does not survive the sola-scriptura test in Matthew 18 nor in Romans 11 nor in Ezekiel 18 (nor even Matthew 6)

Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

As any astute bible student can plainly see, "forgiveness revoked" is you quoting you. Nowhere in Scripture will you find your quote, it is made up by you. What we will find is a King's seal cannot be revoked...

Ok now for some details
1. I admit that "Forgiveness revoked" is a phrase I use - not an exact quote of Matthew 18
2. I challenge those willing to actually "Look" at the details of the Matthew 18 text that I AM quoting to show how it is NOT forgiveness revoked.
3. Obviously you do not take me up on that challenge. Rather you attempt to show that some "other text" that you choose - does not have the details in it that I have in the Matthew 18 example I AM quoting verbatim - and so ignoring every text I have presented your argument is in that special case we don't have to discuss "forgiveness revoked" that we see "in the details" of the Matthew 18 text being quoted.
4. You seem to be arguing that we should "not notice" your not-so-subtle "ignore the text you just quoted" ploy at that point.

Your "solution" is consistently of the form "let's NOT look at the text you are quoting and see if we can find one that does not so explicitly make your case"...

You seem to be arguing that we should "not notice" your not-so-subtle ploy at that point.

This is - the easy part

No amount of villainizing me or SDA denomination or Ellen White changes the ease with which we can all see what you are doing just then. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[BobRyan]

“Now you write to the Jews as you see fit, in the king's name, and seal it with the king's signet ring; for a decree which is written in the name of the king and sealed with the king's signet ring may not be revoked.” (Est 8:8)

Indeed the pagan kingdom of the Persians had that rule as the book of Ester points out.

Jesus said "The wages of sin is death" Rom 6:23 - and by that he means the second death.
Jesus said "all have sinned" Rom 3:23 --

God says in Jeremiah 18:5-12 and also in Ezekiel 18 that all the promises and all the threats - are conditional.

Irrevokable - as you say.

Yet the entire point of the Gospel is that there is a way to get out of that irrevocable doom. As we all know.

Your bend-and-wrench via extreme inference of ESTER 8 -- argues that Matthew 18 and Romans 11 "should not exist" -- which is your first clue that your extreme "micro snippet" based inference is wayyy out in left field.

 

[BobRyan]

s you see fit, in the king's name, and seal it with the king's signet ring; for a decree which is written in the name of the king and sealed with the king's signet ring may not be revoked.” (Est 8:8)
".

Hope all the colors and emphasis's help you out, I know how you like to think they do so maybe they will help you out as well. ".

Very helpful - you highlighted how you were paying no attention at all to Matthew 18 and Romans 11 text where the "forgiveness revoked" topic comes up and instead prefer to look at the book of Ester and policies of the pagan kingdom of Persia.

What you "could not do" was quote this from Romans 11.

Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.



AND what you "could not do" is quote Matthew 18 in response to my challenge to you about "forgiveness revoked".


Matthew 18 is specifically about forgiveness revoked.

32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him. 35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”

Indeed -- Christ shows us the "fully forgiven" about whom it is said "I forgave you ALL" and yet due to subsequent actions of the "fully forgiven" -- they experience forgiveness revoked. until he should pay all that was due

Question for the reader -- In your POV is there such a thing as "Salvation where you pay your own debt of sin" -- having been "forgiven all" he then had to "repay all".. OR is Christ simply mistaken in your POV?

OSAS does not survive the sola-scriptura test in Matthew 18 nor in Romans 11 nor in Ezekiel 18 (nor even Matthew 6)


================================================
How "instructive" for the unbiased objective Bible student to see the extreme to which you had to go to avoid the texts actually in the topic posted.

 

[One Baptism]

As any astute bible student can plainly see, "forgiveness revoked" is you quoting you. Nowhere in Scripture will you find your quote, it is made up by you. What we will find is a King's seal cannot be revoked...

“Now you write to the Jews as you see fit, in the king's name, and seal it with the king's signet ring; for a decree which is written in the name of the king and sealed with the king's signet ring may not be revoked.” (Est 8:8)

I pray you excuse my reply, in the stead of brother BobRyan's. I truly hope you did yet see my direct reply to your inquiry about "just one" - Walter Martin points out that the Adventist denomination is not a cult. Continued

If you will carefully read the text you cited in Esther 8:8, while true, and can and even will apply by the Holy Spirit, I do want you to notice the conditionality within the very text you cited [please read it agin carefully:

Esther 8:8 KJB - Write ye also for the Jews, as it liketh you, in the king's name, and seal it with the king's ring: for the writing which is written in the king's name, and sealed with the king's ring, may no man reverse.​

Esther 8:8 [KJB], is in the context of earthly kings, even a Persian-Median empire, under the reign of Ahasuerus "(this is Ahasuerus which reigned, from India even unto Ethiopia, over an hundred and seven and twenty provinces" [the third person so designated, being Xerxes I the Great, son of Darius I Hystaspes the Persian], husband of Hadassah [Esther], but that the text plainly says of the seal that, "may no man reverse". The context clearly says that a man may not reverse the seal, but it says nothing of God being unable to. God is greater than man, and what is done is based in condition, as Matthew 18 KJB, etc reveals. Also, you only have the "earnest" [downpayment] of the Spirit thereof, not the fullness, since it is based in conditionality, see for yourself.

... Jesus Christ our King and God has placed a seal on His own...
"Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge." (1Cor 1:21-22)

Jesus Christ is indeed King and God [the person of the Son]. I assume the quotation meant to be from 2 Corinthians, and not the first:

2 Corinthians 1:18 KJB - But as God is true, our word toward you was not yea and nay.

2 Corinthians 1:19 KJB - For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.

2 Corinthians 1:20 KJB - For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

2 Corinthians 1:21 KJB - Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;

2 Corinthians 1:22 KJB - Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

2 Corinthians 1:23 KJB - Moreover I call God for a record upon my soul, that to spare you I came not as yet unto Corinth.

2 Corinthians 1:24 KJB - Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.​

The "earnest" is a downpayment in promise or good faith of God [see also Ephesians 1:14 KJB, which is "in Christ", through "belie[f]"; & 2 Corinthians 5:5 KJB - Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.], and is not the fullness thereof, for notice the condition in the last sentence in vs 24, "for by faith ye stand" [see also 2 Corinthians 5:7 KJB - (For we walk by faith, not by sight, and vs 9, "we may" [which is possibility, not finality], and therefore, there is the possibility to "fall", even "fall away" [Luke 8:13; Hebrews 6:6; 2 Thessalonains 2:3 KJB], just as King Saul:

1 Samuel 10:6 KJB - And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.

1 Samuel 10:7 KJB - And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee.

1 Samuel 10:8 KJB - And thou shalt go down before me to Gilgal; and, behold, I will come down unto thee, to offer burnt offerings, and to sacrifice sacrifices of peace offerings: seven days shalt thou tarry, till I come to thee, and shew thee what thou shalt do.

1 Samuel 10:9 KJB - And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.
​

King Saul was given what we are given, and yet he grieved away the Holy Spirit:

1 Samuel 16:14 KJB - But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

1 Samuel 18:12 KJB - And Saul was afraid of David, because the LORD was with him, and was departed from Saul.

1 Samuel 28:15 KJB - And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.​

King David was in a dangerous condition, and he knew it:

Psalms 51:11 KJB - Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
​

Thus, as it is written:

Hebrews 13:8 KJB - Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
​

Notice the condition:

1 John 2:24 KJB - Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
​

Look carefully at the woeful condition:

Hosea 9:12 KJB - Though they bring up their children, yet will I bereave them, that there shall not be a man left: yea, woe also to them when I depart from them!

Psalms 19:13 KJB - Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.​

The Holy Spirit is the person doing the sealing [Ephesians 4:30, the "whereby"], and He may be grieved and blasphemed away, and is given to those that will obey God:

Acts 5:32 KJB - And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Ephesians 4:30 KJB - And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Mark 3:29 KJB - But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:​

 

[One Baptism]

... Not only will you NOT find your made up quote anywhere in all of Scripture, you WILL find a quote with "irrevocable"...

"for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable" (Ro 11:29)

Hope all the colors and emphasis's help you out, I know how you like to think they do so maybe they will help you out as well. But as anyone can see, you quoting you carries no weight. We like to quote the actual bible, which fortunately for you (prayerfully for your own good), totally wrecks the SDA made up quote of "forgiveness revoked".

Colours are helpful, thank you, as it helps me to see which is that you desire to focus upon. Let's look at Romans 11:

Romans 11:1 KJB - I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Romans 11:2 KJB - God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

Romans 11:3 KJB - Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

Romans 11:4 KJB - But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

Romans 11:5 KJB - Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Romans 11:6 KJB - And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Romans 11:7 KJB - What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

Romans 11:8 KJB - (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

Romans 11:9 KJB - And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

Romans 11:10 KJB - Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

Romans 11:11 KJB - I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Romans 11:12 KJB - Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Romans 11:13 KJB - For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Romans 11:14 KJB - If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

Romans 11:15 KJB - For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Romans 11:16 KJB - For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

Romans 11:17 KJB - And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Romans 11:18 KJB - Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Romans 11:19 KJB - Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

Romans 11:20 KJB - Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Romans 11:21 KJB - For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Romans 11:22 KJB - Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Romans 11:23 KJB - And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Romans 11:24 KJB - For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Romans 11:25 KJB - For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Romans 11:26 KJB - And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Romans 11:27 KJB - For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Romans 11:28 KJB - As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Romans 11:29 KJB - For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Romans 11:30 KJB - For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

Romans 11:31 KJB - Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

Romans 11:32 KJB - For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Romans 11:33 KJB - O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Romans 11:34 KJB - For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

Romans 11:35 KJB - Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

Romans 11:36 KJB - For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.​

Did you see the conditions set forth therein? Did you see the connection to the "gifts" and "calling", in regards the mercies of God to those who "believe"? For God had first given the promises to the "fathers", but their children came to disbeleive, and so were cut out of the root stock [which is Christ Jesu Himself], and those of another wild tree [being the Gentiles], through their belief, were grafted into Christ Jesus. The unbelieving Jews, can still be grafted back into those promises, gifts, by "belief", through Faith. The presently believing Gentiles, can be cut out just as they were through unbelief. It is always conditional upon continued belief or continued disbelief. God is still continually offering the "gifts" and "calling" so long as probation lasts, unrevocably. Therefore, be not highminded, but fear, as it is written.

 

[Yeshua1]

True. As for the latter matter, keeping/guarding [etc] is not earning, it is retaining that which is given freely.

Scripture [KJB]? Will you quote Romans 14 KJB, and abuse it, since it speaks of what "one man esteemeth" among men? It is dealing with days of fasting/feasting [eating and not eating days], and not to judge one another over which day was better to do those things as the Jews did [Luke 18:12 KJB].

Luke 16:15 KJB - And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.​

God esteems His Holy 7th Day the Sabbath, which is His rest:

Job 23:12 KJB - Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food.

Psalms 119:126 KJB - It is time for thee, LORD, to work: for they have made void thy law.

Psalms 119:127 KJB - Therefore I love thy commandments above gold; yea, above fine gold.

Psalms 119:128 KJB - Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.​

As for the 66 books, this too, is found in scripture itself [KJB], as it is in the sanctuary, 6 loaves on the left, 6 loaves on the right, 66 [bread and the word, linked], also see the Candlestick itself, count the flowers, knops, etc, and it comes to 66, for the Word is a Lamp unto my feet. The OT, is also 39, which is the standard of judgment, 40-1 [forty stripes save 1].

Stay in the NT, as the new Covenant between God and us no longer requires us to keep the Sabbath as saturday, as that was given to israel, IF you choose to still honor that day, fine, but God does not put that on all Christians now!

 

[Yeshua1]

We both know that I never say that in my constant affirmations of Christ's Matthew 18 doctrine on forgiveness revoked.

Why even go there?

Do you think God will judge a real Christian to forfeit eternal life?

 

[Yeshua1]

Just one? Ok:

John Wesley [Methodist] Commentary on Matthew 18:34 -

"... How observable is this whole account; as well as the great inference our Lord draws from it: The debtor was freely and fully forgiven; He wilfully and grievously offended; His pardon was retracted, the whole debt required, and the offender delivered to the tormentors for ever. And shall we still say, but when we are once freely and fully forgiven, our pardon can never be retracted? Verily, verily, I say unto you, So likewise will my heavenly Father do to you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses. ..."​

Matthew Henry [Non-Conformist] Commentary [read carefully please] on Matthew 18:21-35 -

"... here is forgiveness with God for the greatest sins, if they be repented of. Though the debt was vastly great, he forgave it all, Mat_18:32. Though our sins be very numerous and very heinous, yet, upon gospel terms, they may be pardoned. [3.] The forgiving of the debt is the loosing of the debtor; He loosed him. The obligation is cancelled, the judgment vacated; we never walk at liberty till our sins are forgiven. But observe, Though he discharged him from the penalty as a debtor, he did not discharge him from his duty as a servant. The pardon of sin doth not slacken, but strengthen, our obligations to obedience; and we must reckon it a favour that God is pleased to continue such wasteful servants as we have been in such a gainful service as his is, and should therefore deliver us, that we might serve him, Luk_1:74. I am thy servant, for thou hast loosed my bonds. ...

(2.) How he revoked his pardon and cancelled the acquittance, so that the judgment against him revived (Mat_18:34); He delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. ..."​

The Pulpit Commentary [Rev. Joseph S. Exell and Henry Donald Maurice Spence-Jones] on Matthew 18:21-25 -

"... Christ’s teaching on this point has even a severe side—even his forgiveness may be revoked, if he finds, by our behaviour after forgiveness, that we were morally unfitted to receive it.—R.T. ..."
​

Jospeh Benson [Methodist] Commentary on Matthew 18:34 -

"... Who in like manner acknowledged his debt, and promised payment, showing thee, in his supplication, though thine equal, as much respect as thou showedst to me, thy lord and king? And his lord was wroth — Was exceedingly enraged; and delivered him to the tormentors — Not only revoked the grant of remission which he had just before made, as forfeited by so vile a behaviour; but put him in prison, commanding him to be there fettered and scourged; till he should pay all that was due unto him — That is, without any hope of release, for the immense debt which he owed he could never be able to pay. ..."
​

Preacher's Homiletical [Commentary]:

"... Mat_18:23-35. The unforgiving temper.—There is a fine story illustrative of this parable, told by Fleury (Hist. Eccles., 5:2, p. 334). It is briefly this: Between two Christians at Antioch enmity and division had fallen out; after a while one of them desired to be reconciled, but the other, who was a priest, refused. While it was thus with them, the persecution of Valerian began; and Sapricius, the priest, having boldly confessed himself a Christian, was on the way to death. Nicephorus met him, and again sued for peace, which was again refused. While he was seeking, and the other refusing, they arrived at the place of execution. He that should have been the martyr was here terrified, offered to sacrifice to the gods, and, despite the entreaties of the other, did so, making shipwreck of his faith; while Nicephorus, boldly confessing, stepped in his place, and received the crown which Sapricius lost. This whole story runs finely parallel with our parable. Before Sapricius could have had grace to confess thus to Christ, he must have had his own ten thousand talents forgiven; but, refusing to forgive a far lesser wrong, to put away the displeasure he had taken up on some infinitely lighter grounds against his brother, he forfeited all the advantages of his position, his Lord was angry, took away from his grace, and suffered him again to fall under those powers of evil from which he had once been delivered. It comes out, too, in this story, that it is not merely the outward wrong and outrage upon a brother, which constitutes a likeness to the unmerciful servant, but the unforgiving temper, even apart from all such.—Archbishop Trench. ..."
​

Ellicott's [Charles John, English Christian] Commentary on Matthew 18:35 -

"... Do also unto you.--The words cut through the meshes of many theological systems by which men have deceived themselves. Men have trusted in the self-assurance of justification, in the absolving words of the priest, as though they were final and irreversible. The parable teaches that the debt may come back. If faith does not work by love, it ceases to justify. If the man bind himself once again to his old evil nature, the absolution is annulled. The characters of the discharge are traced (to use another similitude) as in sympathetic ink, and appear or disappear according to the greater or less glow of the faith and love of the pardoned debtor. ..."
​

Coffman's [James Burton, Church of Christ] Commentaries on the Bible Matthew 18:21-35 -

"... The forgiveness the king extended to the unmerciful sinner was total, complete, and uncluttered with any penalties whatsoever. It would also have been permanent if the servant's conduct had not led to its revocation. That he later fell into condemnation was not due to any quality lacking in the full and free pardon that he received, but was due to his later conduct. ..."​

So my not willing to forgive another nullifies the effectual power of the Cross of Christ to forgive sins?

 

[steaver]

Ok now for some details
1. I admit that "Forgiveness revoked" is a phrase I use - not an exact quote of Matthew 18
2. I challenge those willing to actually "Look" at the details of the Matthew 18 text that I AM quoting to show how it is NOT forgiveness revoked.

So let's stick with exact quotes and stay away from speculation bible study.

What do we know from exact scripture quotes?

We know that eternal life is the gift of God..."the gift of God is eternal life..."

We know that this gift is through Jesus Christ our Lord..."the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord".

We know this gift of God is through faith and not of yourselves..."For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God"

We know this gift of God is also known as "Living Water"..."If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water".

We know this "Living Water" is also known as the 'Holy Spirit"and that it was not given to believers until after Jesus had been glorified..."He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

We know Jesus Christ paid the penalty for ALL sins at the cross with the exception of one, blasphemy of the Holy Ghost..."And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."....."All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."

We know this gift of God is irrevocable...."For the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable".

While this list could go on for multiple pages, it is most adequate to debunk the false teaching that goes on concerning Matthew 18 as "forgiveness revoked".

Matthew 18 is a parable concerning forgiveness. Parable's beg interpretation and application. One thing we cannot do is preach a parable is teaching something which would totally contradict any clearly conveyed truths such as the ones I listed above. "Forgiveness revoked" is a total fail.

 

[One Baptism]

Stay in the NT, as the new Covenant between God and us no longer requires us to keep the Sabbath as saturday, as that was given to israel, IF you choose to still honor that day, fine, but God does not put that on all Christians now!

Stay in the NT? You do realize that the NT is chock full of direct citations from the pages of Genesis to Malachi, and nowhere in scripture is there any man-made rule [or God-given rule for that matter] to only use the NT texts. You have a heresy [and a dangerous one at that, see 2 Timothy 3:15-17 KJB, and Jesus Himself [as Paul and all the other apostles] read, quoted and taught from those pages] there. You do realize that pages like Isaiah 56 & 58; Malachi 3 [etc] are contextual of the New [Everlasting] Covenant? Did you know that according to scripture [KJB] that the Everlasting Covenant existed from eternity between Father and Son, witnessed by the Holy Spirit, and was ratified by the blood of Jesus at Calvary, and later by the Father in Heaven at Jesus ascension? It is made with the house of Israel [Jesus] and the house of Judah [Jesus, the lion of the tribe of Judah]:

"... Jesus is Israel:

"... Matthew 2:13-15; citing Hosea 11:1 KJB [Jesus is the true Israel, even as He is the True David, Adam, Solomon, etc, etc.Jeremiah 30:9; Ezekiel 34:23-24, 37:24-25; Hosea 3:5; 1 Corinthians 15:45-46], turn then to Hebrews 2:9-13 KJB, which in verse 13, cites Isaiah 8:18 [read Isaiah 8:8-20 KJB], therefore we know who Jesus [Israel's] children are, in Isaiah 8:16 KJB, as he says of them, "my disciples". Consider the NT texts which Jesus over and over again calls them "my disciples", and even "little children" [Matthew 12:46-50; Mark 14:14; Luke 14:26,27,33, 22:11; John 8:31, 13:35, 15:8 KJB, etc], Thus we know who the "children of Israel" is in referring to Exodus 31:13-18 KJB, and who is to keep the sabbath holy, as it is written, that there are two [not one] Israels:

[1] Israel after the flesh which are not the children of God [Romans 9:6-8; 1 Corinthians 10:18 KJB]; [Head, ruler, Jacob, son of Isaac] Genesis 32:28, 35:10,21; [body, peoples] Genesis 32:32, 35:22; Israel, the person, is as a “king” which is a head or ruler [Joshua 11:10; 1 Samuel 15:17; 1 Kings 1:35, 1 Chronicles 11:2; Psalms 105:20 KJB], over a body or kingdom/land [Isaiah 62:1-5 KJB]. The two [king & kingdom/land] are two things, yet joined, as husband and wife, or Head and body, Father and children, etc. and

[2] the Israel after the Spirit, Jesus Christ, and His children and body [Galatians 6:16; Hebrews 10:13; Romans 9:8 KJB', as it is written, first the natural, then follows the spiritual [1 Corinthians 15:46 KJB].​

But if we consider Isaiah 56:1 KJB, and ask who is "my salvation", and "my righteousness", we can go to the NT texts and know that it is Jesus [Matthew 1:21; Luke 2:20; Acts 4:10,12, see also Isaiah 46:13, 51:5,68,8; Psalms 119:172; Isaiah 48:18]. Then if we jump down to Isaiah 56:8 KJB, we see that it again refers to what Jesus is doing in the NT, as per its fulfillment in John 10:16 KJB. Then all one has to do, is to go back, and read the context between Isaiah 56:1 and Isaiah 56:8, by reading Isaiah 56:2-7, which mentions the "everlasting name", God's "my covenant" [which is the eternal, everlasting and also called New Covenant], and who is to join themselves unto the LORD, the Gentiles.

Thus for the fulfillment of those Isaiah 56 passages, we turn again to the NT, and read Matthew 10:25; [Malachi 1:6]; Luke 6:40; “... the Gentiles are turned to God:” - Acts 15:19 KJB, “That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called ...” - Acts 15:17 KJB, not to cast away the Tabernacle of David, no, but to build it up, see Acts 15:16-17; Amos 9:11-12 KJB, for God had winked at the ignorance of all men in the past, but now commands all men everywhere to come to Him in repentance, and come into obedience to His Law, see Acts 17:30 KJB, see Acts 4:24, 14:15-16; Revelation 10:6, 14:6-7; 2 Peter 2:21; Revelation 12:17; 14:12, 22:14 KJB.

Then compare Exodus 20:8-11, especially verse 11, and align it with Nehemiah 9:6, Psalms 146:6; [Jews] Acts 4:24; [Gentiles] Acts 14:15-16; [all peoples] Revelation 10:6; 14:6-7; and back again to the Gentiles repenting and coming into obedience unto God's Holy commandment [Exodus 20:8; 2 Peter 2:21 KJB], in Acts 13:42-44; Acts 16:13, 18:4,11; Acts 15:21, 17:2 [compare Luke 4:6 in language]; 17:3-4; and also in Hebrews 4:2,4,9,10; Romans 11:26; and then follow it to Isaiah 58:1,12-14.

John 10:35 KJB, unbreakable. ..." - Walter Martin's "Kingdom of the Cults" declares Adventist are not a Cult and destroys Hoekema's book ..."
​

Why not accept what is scripturally [KJB], irrefutable?

 

[One Baptism]

So let's stick with exact quotes and stay away from speculation bible study. ...

Evidence that you asked for was given you, even with citation from their sources. Why are you insincere in your request?, since at this time you still have not even acknowledged what was given you in charity?

I despise such a religion as that, that will not acknowledge truth.

 

[One Baptism]

So my not willing to forgive another nullifies the effectual power of the Cross of Christ to forgive sins?

It doesn't have anything to do with Christ's effectual power of the Cross to forgive sins, it has to do upon your own part in response to Christ's forgiveness. All of God's gifts, including forgiveness, are not to be abused, misused, or presumed upon, but to be spread abroad and shared with all. Since Christ Jesus forgave, being a gift, He gave, it is to be shared in like manner by the one who received, that others may experience it also.

Devils always seek to blame Jesus Christ for their self-made ineptitude, inadequacies and faults of character. The fault lies within the unforgiving, not in Christ Jesus, being perfect, who forgave.

 

[BobRyan]

So let's stick with exact quotes and stay away from speculation

Here is a welcomed change

What do we know from exact scripture quotes?

Easy -- OSAS does not surive the test of "Sola Scriptura"


Matthew 18 is specifically about forgiveness revoked.

32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him. 35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”

Indeed -- Christ shows us the "fully forgiven" about whom it is said "I forgave you ALL" and yet due to subsequent actions of the "fully forgiven" -- they experience forgiveness revoked. until he should pay all that was due

Question for the reader -- In your POV is there such a thing as "Salvation where you pay your own debt of sin" -- having been "forgiven all" he then had to "repay all".. OR is Christ simply mistaken in your POV?

OSAS does not survive the sola-scriptura test in Matthew 18 nor in Romans 11 nor in Ezekiel 18 (nor even Matthew 6)

Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

We know that eternal life is the gift of God..."the gift of God is eternal life..."

We know that this gift is through Jesus Christ our Lord..."the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord".

We know this gift of God is through faith and not of yourselves..."For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God"
.

True.

And we know this -


Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

And we know this --

Matthew 18 is specifically about forgiveness revoked.

32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him. 35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”

 

[Yeshua1]

Stay in the NT? You do realize that the NT is chock full of direct citations from the pages of Genesis to Malachi, and nowhere in scripture is there any man-made rule [or God-given rule for that matter] to only use the NT texts. You have a heresy [and a dangerous one at that, see 2 Timothy 3:15-17 KJB, and Jesus Himself [as Paul and all the other apostles] read, quoted and taught from those pages] there. You do realize that pages like Isaiah 56 & 58; Malachi 3 [etc] are contextual of the New [Everlasting] Covenant? Did you know that according to scripture [KJB] that the Everlasting Covenant existed from eternity between Father and Son, witnessed by the Holy Spirit, and was ratified by the blood of Jesus at Calvary, and later by the Father in Heaven at Jesus ascension? It is made with the house of Israel [Jesus] and the house of Judah [Jesus, the lion of the tribe of Judah]:

"... Jesus is Israel:

"... Matthew 2:13-15; citing Hosea 11:1 KJB [Jesus is the true Israel, even as He is the True David, Adam, Solomon, etc, etc.Jeremiah 30:9; Ezekiel 34:23-24, 37:24-25; Hosea 3:5; 1 Corinthians 15:45-46], turn then to Hebrews 2:9-13 KJB, which in verse 13, cites Isaiah 8:18 [read Isaiah 8:8-20 KJB], therefore we know who Jesus [Israel's] children are, in Isaiah 8:16 KJB, as he says of them, "my disciples". Consider the NT texts which Jesus over and over again calls them "my disciples", and even "little children" [Matthew 12:46-50; Mark 14:14; Luke 14:26,27,33, 22:11; John 8:31, 13:35, 15:8 KJB, etc], Thus we know who the "children of Israel" is in referring to Exodus 31:13-18 KJB, and who is to keep the sabbath holy, as it is written, that there are two [not one] Israels:

[1] Israel after the flesh which are not the children of God [Romans 9:6-8; 1 Corinthians 10:18 KJB]; [Head, ruler, Jacob, son of Isaac] Genesis 32:28, 35:10,21; [body, peoples] Genesis 32:32, 35:22; Israel, the person, is as a “king” which is a head or ruler [Joshua 11:10; 1 Samuel 15:17; 1 Kings 1:35, 1 Chronicles 11:2; Psalms 105:20 KJB], over a body or kingdom/land [Isaiah 62:1-5 KJB]. The two [king & kingdom/land] are two things, yet joined, as husband and wife, or Head and body, Father and children, etc. and

[2] the Israel after the Spirit, Jesus Christ, and His children and body [Galatians 6:16; Hebrews 10:13; Romans 9:8 KJB', as it is written, first the natural, then follows the spiritual [1 Corinthians 15:46 KJB].​

But if we consider Isaiah 56:1 KJB, and ask who is "my salvation", and "my righteousness", we can go to the NT texts and know that it is Jesus [Matthew 1:21; Luke 2:20; Acts 4:10,12, see also Isaiah 46:13, 51:5,68,8; Psalms 119:172; Isaiah 48:18]. Then if we jump down to Isaiah 56:8 KJB, we see that it again refers to what Jesus is doing in the NT, as per its fulfillment in John 10:16 KJB. Then all one has to do, is to go back, and read the context between Isaiah 56:1 and Isaiah 56:8, by reading Isaiah 56:2-7, which mentions the "everlasting name", God's "my covenant" [which is the eternal, everlasting and also called New Covenant], and who is to join themselves unto the LORD, the Gentiles.

Thus for the fulfillment of those Isaiah 56 passages, we turn again to the NT, and read Matthew 10:25; [Malachi 1:6]; Luke 6:40; “... the Gentiles are turned to God:” - Acts 15:19 KJB, “That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called ...” - Acts 15:17 KJB, not to cast away the Tabernacle of David, no, but to build it up, see Acts 15:16-17; Amos 9:11-12 KJB, for God had winked at the ignorance of all men in the past, but now commands all men everywhere to come to Him in repentance, and come into obedience to His Law, see Acts 17:30 KJB, see Acts 4:24, 14:15-16; Revelation 10:6, 14:6-7; 2 Peter 2:21; Revelation 12:17; 14:12, 22:14 KJB.

Then compare Exodus 20:8-11, especially verse 11, and align it with Nehemiah 9:6, Psalms 146:6; [Jews] Acts 4:24; [Gentiles] Acts 14:15-16; [all peoples] Revelation 10:6; 14:6-7; and back again to the Gentiles repenting and coming into obedience unto God's Holy commandment [Exodus 20:8; 2 Peter 2:21 KJB], in Acts 13:42-44; Acts 16:13, 18:4,11; Acts 15:21, 17:2 [compare Luke 4:6 in language]; 17:3-4; and also in Hebrews 4:2,4,9,10; Romans 11:26; and then follow it to Isaiah 58:1,12-14.

John 10:35 KJB, unbreakable. ..." - Walter Martin's "Kingdom of the Cults" declares Adventist are not a Cult and destroys Hoekema's book ..."​

Why not accept what is scripturally [KJB], irrefutable?

Are we now under the law, or under Grace? Are we still in the Old, or in the New Covenant?
Where did Jesus or ANY Apostle state that we under the NC are still under the OT sabbath?

 

[Yeshua1]

It doesn't have anything to do with Christ's effectual power of the Cross to forgive sins, it has to do upon your own part in response to Christ's forgiveness. All of God's gifts, including forgiveness, are not to be abused, misused, or presumed upon, but to be spread abroad and shared with all. Since Christ Jesus forgave, being a gift, He gave, it is to be shared in like manner by the one who received, that others may experience it also.

Devils always seek to blame Jesus Christ for their self-made ineptitude, inadequacies and faults of character. The fault lies within the unforgiving, not in Christ Jesus, being perfect, who forgave.

God Himself keeps all of His own forever saved, are you able to overpower God?

 

[One Baptism]

Are we now under the law, or under Grace? Are we still in the Old, or in the New Covenant?
Where did Jesus or ANY Apostle state that we under the NC are still under the OT sabbath?

Under the law means condemnation [Romans 3:19 KJB] for having transgressed that law.

Under Grace [means free from condmendation of past sins of having transgressed that Law and now] to obey the Law by/through the Spirit [Romans 8:4 KJB, etc], "in" salvation. New Covenant, which includes the Ten Commandments [not on stone, but on the tables of the fleshy heart, location and ministration changed, not the Law itself], since each of the Ten Commandments are themselves God's perfect promises and eternal character, Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:8-13, 10:16, etc - , "my law" "in their hearts", see also Ezekiel 36:25-27; 2 Corinthians 3:3 KJB.

The Sabbath is the Holy 7th Day of the LORD. It existed before the 'old covenant' made in Exodus 19:3-8 KJB, see Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11; John 14:15; Exodus 20:6, 2 Peter 2:21, the "holy" commandment, etc. Again, see Isaiah 56:1,8, John 10:16; Isaiah 56:2-7, and the rest of the citations already provided to you. It was in the beginning, exists then, now, and it will be in eternity, Isaiah 58 & 66, etc.

 

[One Baptism]

God Himself keeps all of His own forever saved, are you able to overpower God?

God does not force, He draws, woos. He is not a spiritual rapist. God is love. God gave you power to choose Him or no, to believe Him or no. God respects that decision, in all its consequences and finality.

 

[Yeshua1]

Under the law means condemnation [Romans 3:19 KJB] for having transgressed that law.

Under Grace [means from from condmendation of past sins of having transgressed that Law and now] to obey the Law by/through the Spirit [Romans 8:4 KJB, etc], "in" salvation. New Covenant, which includes the Ten Commandments [not on stone, but on the tables of th fleshy heart, location and ministration changed, not the Law itself], since each of the Ten Commandments are themselves God's perfect promises and eternal character, Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:8-13, 10:16, etc - , "my law" "in their hearts", see also Ezekiel 36:25-27; 2 Corinthians 3:3 KJB.

The Sabbath is the Holy 7th Day of the LORD. It existed before the 'old covenant' made in Exodus 19:3-8 KJB, see Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11; John 14:15; Exodus 20:6, 2 Peter 2:21, the "holy" commandment, etc. Again, see Isaiah 56:1,8, John 10:16; Isaiah 56:2-7, and the rest of the citations already provided to you. It was in the beginning, exists then, now, and it will be in eternity, Isaiah 58 & 66, etc.

Are we , who have been saved by grace, now being perfected by keeping the Law?