War and Faith

Probably not as many as you, your holiness.

 

Terry,
We are all well aware of your own attitude of moral superiority as amply proven by the language and attitude in your PM to me.

SN,
My memory of past post history can only deal with the posts on the Thread at hand...

So, you are denyinh that God's has power and takes interest in the affairs of men?

SMM

 

Then by all means feel free to ignore my posts. It is interesting though that you make yourself a judge of other's behavior with virtually no information whatsoever about the character of the person you are judging. You derive conclusions apparently based on your disagreement with them or else on their writing style.

You accuse me of arrogance... but I am not the one attempting to condescendingly judge you personally based on the limited info we have here on the BB.

First, that is not a valid qualifier. Second, as we have discussed before, I served my country in the Army Reserves as an infantry officer. That was my first choice of MOS... I made it knowing that it could get me killed if we had a war. Third, I don't control history. Had I been needed, I was in uniform and would have gone.

You don't know what you are talking about, do you? You have nothing to base my supposed cowardice upon other than your need to denigrate me in an attempt to silence me or downgrade my opinions.

Let's try a parallel argument back at you.

"I have an ancestor named William Hooper. He was a wealthy privileged man who lived in the 1700's... and a signer of the Declaration of Independence. With his risks and sacrifices, he bought my right to speak out on these issues. Unless you can make a similar claim, your opinions are worthless."

This argument has every bit as much merit as yours... which is zero.

 

I do like Bush. I tend to like people who act on values and convictions rather than expediency. In most respects, he seems to be such a person.

OTOH, I have openly disagreed with his domestic policies on this very board. I don't approve of him or anyone else using filthy gestures in any context... but realize that people have flaws. I'd rate the two mentioned indiscretions by Bush to be fairly insignificant to those of say.... someone who had sex with an intern while international leaders sat waiting in the Rose Garden... who lied to the American people and under oath.

 

FTR, I have two sons, 13 and 11. The implication that I have nothing at risk in this particular subject was a very, very stupid and foundless conjecture.

I would gladly give my life today to protect them or your sons from facing what Iran will quite likely become if left unchecked.

 

MODERATOR NOTE: I have an idea...why don't we just close the politics forum since it seems that discussions quickly deteriorate into personal attacks.....there are too many personal attacks on this thread for me to edit out. This thread is supposed to be about war and faith, not making war on each other.

Any further personal attacks will result in this thread being closed without warning.

Lady Eagle,
Moderator

 

(Attempt to use scripture for political purposes)
Romans 13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

When Nixon was in Bush's position, the Rev. Myung Son Moon announced the same thing. "God put Nixon in office, and only God can remove him."

Wrong. In America, the Constitution governs, at the consent of the voters. He was put there by voters, and he can be removed for malfeasance.

No, I'm pointing out that Moon was wrong, and so are those who say that Bush is somehow annointed. The governing authority in this case is the Constitution, which makes citizens the ultimate arbiter of government.

A good Christian will therefore reject the argument that our leaders are somehow above criticism or accountability to the voters. To do otherwise would be to fail to submit to the governing authorities.

 

No, I'm pointing out that Moon was wrong, and so are those who say that Bush is somehow annointed. The governing authority in this case is the Constitution, which makes citizens the ultimate arbiter of government.

A good Christian will therefore reject the argument that our leaders are somehow above criticism or accountability to the voters. To do otherwise would be to fail to submit to the governing authorities. </font>[/QUOTE]Well said G! In America the people are sovereign Not those we send to our business. In other words we the people are the higher powers spoken of in Romans 13 not George Bush, Hillary Clinton, or congress. They are called public servants (or used to be) for a reason, they serve us not we them.

I wish more people understood this most basic premise of our now all but surrendered republican form of government.

 

No, I'm pointing out that Moon was wrong, and so are those who say that Bush is somehow annointed. The governing authority in this case is the Constitution, which makes citizens the ultimate arbiter of government.

A good Christian will therefore reject the argument that our leaders are somehow above criticism or accountability to the voters. To do otherwise would be to fail to submit to the governing authorities. </font>[/QUOTE]Well said G! In America the people are sovereign Not those we send to our business. In other words we the people are the higher powers spoken of in Romans 13 not George Bush, Hillary Clinton, or congress. They are called public servants (or used to be) for a reason, they serve us not we them.

I wish more people understood this most basic premise of our now all but surrendered republican form of government. </font>[/QUOTE]Amen to that Poncho,
For way too long people have been trying to use that ploy of being subservant to the powers of the elected to keep us quiet . God has provided a way for those who are called to public service to serve and he has also provided a way to have those that have abused the trust of American public to be removed.
Be a good citizen and be a voice.
Follow Jesus not George.

 

If the People are Sovreign?

Can God be Sovreign?

No, I don't think so.

For, we are supposed to be "One Nation Under God" first, and in control of our country second...

And, just because some glory hounds get it wrong doesn't mean it isn't right to make God Sovreign First.

SMM

 

By all means God is meant to be Numero Uno . our Constitution is set up that all may be represented and have a voice whether you are Jewish, Christian, Muslim or Martian. Unless one has thier eyes closed one cannot help but plainly see how corrupt our Government is and we the people have neglected our responsiblity to make certain that our Constituion is not hijacked by Washington politics.
We all have Voice and we need to use it more often.
So stay focused and follow Jesus. Politicians will let you down and forget you but Jesus won't.

 

Just checking...

And, I wouldn't want any particular denom to hijack the constitution either...

Of course I don't want the 'Denomination of the Absence of Christ' to hijack it either.

SMM

 

When Nixon was in Bush's position, the Rev. Myung Son Moon announced the same thing. "God put Nixon in office, and only God can remove him."

Wrong. In America, the Constitution governs, at the consent of the voters. He was put there by voters, and he can be removed for malfeasance.

Indeed. But there aren't many people left who still trust him.

The surveys I've seen show that there aren't any more atheists in prison than in the general public. Regrettably, there are a lot of believers who stray. </font>[/QUOTE]Just because we use a certain method of elect our president does not mean that we ignore the Bible verse posted above.

Scott J, I appreciate your posts. You are in top form, stick in there.

 

When Nixon was in Bush's position, the Rev. Myung Son Moon announced the same thing. "God put Nixon in office, and only God can remove him."

Wrong. In America, the Constitution governs, at the consent of the voters. He was put there by voters, and he can be removed for malfeasance.

Indeed. But there aren't many people left who still trust him.

The surveys I've seen show that there aren't any more atheists in prison than in the general public. Regrettably, there are a lot of believers who stray. </font>[/QUOTE]Just because we use a certain method of elect our president does not mean that we ignore the Bible verse posted above.

Scott J, I appreciate your posts. You are in top form, stick in there. </font>[/QUOTE]The point is Phillip that We The People are part of the governing process and we elect public servants not kings, we are accountable for what we do in accordance to the constitution, this is our covenant with one another .We are all equal with equal rights as is stated in our constitution. I answer to the constitution in accordance to the laws for man that we have set for us. Just as I answer to it because it is just and reasonable so do you and so does the President of the United States because we are all equal. The constitution has not made it impossible to obey and follow our God and without question we have that freedom to give God top priority in our lives.
Isn't it great that we have a Saviour who is rightoues and because of Him are joint heirs in the Kingdom of Heaven that is yet to come.

 

I think you are putting the constitution above the Bible. We follow God's Word and THEN we follow a political document written by man.

Yes, I agree that it is great that we have a Saviour who is righteous, but if we continue our slippery slope into becoming a country known for its blatant sin, then we are looking at a conflict between politics and The Saviour.

 

No actually I am not. What I am stating is that because the constitution is framed that we are given freedom to worship it means that our struggle to put God as #1 is not as great as if we lived in another country. God has put us in this country to call on us to spread the gospel without restraints that would be imposed on us if we didn't have the constitution to guarantee our rights. I strongly believe that God has made it possible for us to have such a wonderful rule of law.

 

Since all government and leaders are ordained by God, I really do not think that putting th US Constitution above the Bible or vice versa is the point. We are called upon as Christians to obey the law of the land. Now I do not want to imply to understand God's eternal plan, but this country is very unique. We have the best government, the best standard of living, the fairest justice, the highest ideals in the history of mankind despite our depraved state.

I agree we are on a "slippery slope", however, this is not the fault of our Constitution, not that its a perfect document, but nothing in it is evil, and does try to improve the lot and dignity of man. We are going downhill because of our self-centered sin, because we are worried about ME, because we do not love our neighbor as ourself, because we do not love God with all our heart, mind, soul, and spirit. We have been blessed more than any other nation, yet, we are more self indulgent and use more resources than any nation in history. We shake our fist at God, as we have lost the founding ideals of our nation. We commit every sin known to man, and invent new ones, more horrible than the last. How long will God continue to bless this nation? Who knows? It depends on His plan and purposes. He has brought nations down for a lot less.

 

The best of all possible nations, eh?

How do you think our justice system is fairer than Finland's? How do our ideals compare to Bhutan's?

 

Rocko, point well taken. Your wording is better

Daisy, if the other nations are better, why dont Americans move there? Would you?