And the heresy per Rome would have been not holding to their Gospel, or translating into common languages, correct?
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Was Bible possesion banned by the Catholic Church?
- Thread starter Hobie
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Walpole
Well-Known Member
Again, as with Protestant states, if one was found guilty of heresy, it was an act of sedition and a capital crime. Translating was not a capital offense. However, disseminating heresy was, even in Protestant states. For example, Tyndale was put to death by civil authorities in Antwerp for heresy and fomenting sedition in England (Henry VIII - Protestant). The problem was not that he translated the Bible to English, but that his translation was famously riddled with errors. The Protestant bishop of London, Tunstall, famously stated there were upwards of 2,000 errors in Tyndale's English Bible.
You are clearly talking out of your hat here. Google "German Peasants War of 1524" to see the connection between heresy and sedition in Protestant states, less you continue with your doulbe-standard. Or, if you would like to read more about it, I recommend Harvard Divinity School's Mark Edwards' Printing, Propoganda and Martin Luther and Notre Dame's Brad Gregory's Salvation at Stake.
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You REALLY need to do your history homework.
The fact that the STATE and NOT the Church was responsible for the executions of heretics has been explained to you ad nauseam - yet you cannot seem to grasp this fact.
As @Walpole had amply explained to you - this was the case in PROTESTANT kingdoms as well as Catholic kingdoms.
Just take a look at Henry VIII and his daughter Elizabeth I. Together, they murdered THOUSANDS of Catholics in the name of the Kingdom of England.
Rome has killed many true saints over church history!
Since you refuse to study history - name ONE SINGLE person "Rome" has killed.
This should be easy for you . . .
Baptists are not Protestants as they reject a lot of what actual Protestants believe.
WRONG.
If you are a Christian and are NOT Catholic or Orthodox - you are by definition, a Protestant.
Baptists ARE Protestants whose teachings go back to John Smyth in the 17th century.
ALL Protestants "reject" the teachings of other Protestants - and Baptists are NO different. That's why there are literally tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually splintering Protestant sects that ALL teach different doctrines yet ALL teach that they have the "Truth".
I understand why you want to distance yourself from Protestantism - but you can't.
John Smyth was himself a renegade from the Protestant way - they didn't go far enough for him. He was as you should know a former Anglican priest and he rejected a lot of mainstream protestant thought.
You do realize I am a Catholic like you, right? Some of the things mainline Protestants adhere to are infant baptism, a belief in the "Real Presence", the sacraments - things that John Smythe rejected.
So no, I do not see Baptists as mainline Protestants.
First of all - I didn't mean "You" in the definition of a Protestant. It was a general definition.
I know you're Catholic. A "Protestant" by definition is a non-Catholic, non-Orthodox Christian.
Secondly - I think you're wrong about Baptists NOT being Protestants for the reasons I listed earlier - but let me explain further. I think you are conflating the terms "original Reformer" with "Protestant" when you speak of John Smyth. He was absolutely a Protestant - but not one of the original Reformers.
You claim that Smyth rejected some of the teachings of the original Reformers - so he is NOT a Protestant. This fact alone make him the textbook example of a Protestant. Protestantism was born of ecclesial divorce and splintering - which is precisely what Smyth and others after him did.
You say that the Reformers all believed in the Real Presences - which is NOT true. John Calvin rejected the Real Presence. However, he DID believe in doctrines such as Mary's Perpetual Virginity - which Calvinists of today wholeheartedly reject. This is the fruit of Protestantism - constant change and constant reform.
John Smyth was NO different . . .
You missed the word "some" reformers which I used. Other than that you made some good points which have failed to sway me completely to your outlook. Sure, in the big picture he is a Protestant, but within the Protestant faction I see him as something else. Yes I understand that our separated brothers have disagreements between themselves, but Mr. Smythe was one to himself who took all that came before him through "the reformers" and rejected much of what they had to say.
Not trying to prolong an argument - but I guess it depends on what you consider "Protestantism" to be.
Remember - the Dutch Reformed movement originated with Michaelis Jones (1628) - who came AFTER John Smythe.
John Wesley started the Methodists in the 18th century (1738) and they are considered "mainline" Protestants.
Most of the "non-denominational" Reformed Evangelical groups sprang up over the last hundred years or so.
Just food for thought . . .
37818
Well-Known Member
He was a "Baptist" for confession of the faith only valid of that rite, from the NT, not initially "Baptist" for immersion only.
A better question would be:
"Does Protestantism hold to the teachings of the New Covenant?"
The answer is Yes and No.
There is some truth in every Protestant denomination because ALL Christians believe in the atoning sacrifice of Christ, His Resurrection and that He is the only way to the Father.
After that - there is an endless array of perpetually-splintering doctrines.
Walpole
Well-Known Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg
No. @Yeshua1 is a hit-and-run poster.
I didn't expect an answer - but I always ask anyway . . .
Thanks. Just tryin' to stamp out the dishonesty of anti-Catholicism along with you and others here.
37818
Well-Known Member
No. As asked. Does the Roman Catholic Church? 1 Timothy 2:2-5. Matthew 23:9.
37818
Well-Known Member
j
Oh so they're really Baptist.
The Catholic Church is comprised of some TWENTY Liturgical Rites that are in full communion with each other and the Bishop of Rome - the Pope.
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