Was God Wrathful before the Fall?

[Mikey]

So on I came across a discussion on whether God was wrathful before the Fall.

One persons argument was that "God never changes. We get angry over an act of sin when it happens. God has known for all eternity all the sin that would happen. He has for eternity been wrathful against that sin and will continue to be wrathful against that sin."

So what do you think?

 

[Reformed]

We know that God is holy and cannot abide sin (Ps. 5:4). While the triune God is eternal, God's will of decree, vis-à-vis humanity, plays out in time. God's wrath against sin also takes place in time.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

What @Reformed said.
God, in eternity past, foresaw that Man would fall into sin and come under His righteous judgement.
So, in the 'Everlasting Covenant' made among the Persons of the Trinity, Father, Son and Spirit agreed upon the great plan of salvation. Ephesians 1:3-14; Titus 1:2; 1 Peter 1:20 etc.

 

[Revmitchell]

So on I came across a discussion on whether God was wrathful before the Fall.

One persons argument was that "God never changes. We get angry over an act of sin when it happens. God has known for all eternity all the sin that would happen. He has for eternity been wrathful against that sin and will continue to be wrathful against that sin."

So what do you think?

I think it is an inane question.

 

[kyredneck]

I think it is an inane question.

Of course you would. Wouldn't expect anything more from you.

 

[Mikey]

I think it is an inane question.

would expect nothing less

 

[1689Dave]

So on I came across a discussion on whether God was wrathful before the Fall.

One persons argument was that "God never changes. We get angry over an act of sin when it happens. God has known for all eternity all the sin that would happen. He has for eternity been wrathful against that sin and will continue to be wrathful against that sin."

So what do you think?

I think God created all knowing sin would exist. And it became the contrast to display and measure his attributes against. Through sin he revealed his mercy, wrath, righteousness, goodness, justice, wisdom, love and more. Jesus fully displayed this on the cross fulfilling the two great commandments of love for God and people.

He took God's wrath, loving God and enemies with all his body, soul, and strength. Until his his heart could not produce one more drop of blood. In this he revealed God's unconditional love, wrath, righteousness, mercy, wisdom, goodness, and like attributes.

 

[InTheLight]

What @Reformed said.
God, in eternity past, foresaw that Man would fall into sin and come under His righteous judgement.

So God "looked down through the corridors of time" and foresaw a free will choice that man would make. Got it.

So, in the 'Everlasting Covenant' made among the Persons of the Trinity, Father, Son and Spirit agreed upon the great plan of salvation. Ephesians 1:3-14; Titus 1:2; 1 Peter 1:20 etc.

And then God took action based on this new intelligence.

 

[Yeshua1]

We know that God is holy and cannot abide sin (Ps. 5:4). While the triune God is eternal, God's will of decree, vis-à-vis humanity, plays out in time. God's wrath against sin also takes place in time.

God knew that the fall would happen, and had already ordained the Cross of Christ to be the remedy for it, it the actual events themselves still had to be worked out in historical time as we know it!

 

[Yeshua1]

So God "looked down through the corridors of time" and foresaw a free will choice that man would make. Got it.



And then God took action based on this new intelligence.

God already had planned the Cross of Christ though....

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

So on I came across a discussion on whether God was wrathful before the Fall. One persons argument was that "God never changes. We get angry over an act of sin when it happens. God has known for all eternity all the sin that would happen. He has for eternity been wrathful against that sin and will continue to be wrathful against that sin." So what do you think?

Not only is eternal God supernaturally able to express wrath, he is supernaturally able to control it. His being supernatural, I doubt we can fathom it.

 

[Yeshua1]

Not only is eternal God supernaturally able to express wrath, he is supernaturally able to control it. His being supernatural, I doubt we can fathom it.

God's wrath towards sin and sinners is not as we normally see it, as his is a righteous one, that is not just merely Him venting, or exploding without due cause!

 

[HankD]

Once again we attempt to combine time and eternity. Never the twain shall meet - except in one place.

Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

 

[Reformed]

Once again we attempt to combine time and eternity. Never the twain shall meet - except in one place.

Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

The OP was a good question. These sort of things vex people. It is good to ask the questions and then see what scripture has to say on the matter.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

So God "looked down through the corridors of time" and foresaw a free will choice that man would make. Got it.

Just so. Adam and Eve's will was free; fallen mankind's isn't.

And then God took action based on this new intelligence.

No intelligence is new to God. Otherwise He would not be God.

 

[HankD]

The OP was a good question. These sort of things vex people. It is good to ask the questions and then see what scripture has to say on the matter.

Isaiah 55
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

 

[tyndale1946]

Isaiah 55
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Since this is open for discussion, let me throw as they say a monkey wrench in the works... I have talked to Christians over the years and there is talk that Satan was in Heaven and God threw him out... Would God allow sin to be in his Heaven where he dwells?... Then God showed his wrath in Heaven before the fall... If not as I tend to believe that Satan's fall was in the Garden of Eden as God would not allow sin where he dwells?... I believe that this heavenly rebellion theory can be connected to The Gap Theory... Just thought I would stir the pot a little... Brother Glen

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

 

[HankD]

Since this is open for discussion, let me throw as they say a monkey wrench in the works... I have talked to Christians over the years and there is talk that Satan was in Heaven and God threw him out... Would God allow sin to be in his Heaven where he dwells?... Then God showed his wrath in Heaven before the fall... If not as I tend to believe that Satan's fall was in the Garden of Eden as God would not allow sin where he dwells?... I believe that this heavenly rebellion theory can be connected to The Gap Theory... Just thought I would stir the pot a little... Brother Glen

If ULTIMATELY it gave Him pleasure...

Psalm 115:3 But our God is in heaven; He does whatever He pleases.

 

[Yeshua1]

Since this is open for discussion, let me throw as they say a monkey wrench in the works... I have talked to Christians over the years and there is talk that Satan was in Heaven and God threw him out... Would God allow sin to be in his Heaven where he dwells?... Then God showed his wrath in Heaven before the fall... If not as I tend to believe that Satan's fall was in the Garden of Eden as God would not allow sin where he dwells?... I believe that this heavenly rebellion theory can be connected to The Gap Theory... Just thought I would stir the pot a little... Brother Glen

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Satan showed up in Heaven in time of Job, after the fall of Adam...

 

[tyndale1946]

Satan showed up in Heaven in time of Job, after the fall of Adam...

Scripture please!

Then there is Ezekiel!... Brother Glen

Ezekiel 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.