1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Do you believe in the virgin birth of Christ?
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Was God Wrathful before the Fall?
- Thread starter Mikey
- Start date
Again you contradict your LORD.
ALL will hear and all will be resurrected
John 5
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Of course I was simply answering you in your limitation of your Savior.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
SO?
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
God knows no limits other than his nature.
You said the dead can't hear.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Not unless resurrected.
Dave my brother ALL will hear Him and be resurrected that is my point (or scripture point).
The power of the resurrection of Jesus Christ reaches into the bowels of the graves of the dead.
Like us, the dead have put their stamp of approval on what they are.
They don't want Him, He will accommodate them.
John 5
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
How can dead men walk?
Rockson
Active Member
I suggest you're whole misunderstanding is not knowing what God REALLY wanted to exist. That man would be a free will being. And because he would be this design of our redemption was set up and was decided from the beginning of the world.
1) I said to you what God really wanted was for mankind to have FREE WILL. No offence but you understand what I mean by that as in THAT'S WHAT GOD WANTED?
2) NOW...why would God want that? Because he did not want beings who were like robots mere automations.
3) Now....because God got what HE WANTED....beings with free will you tell me Dave, that being the case what potentially could happen? You know it wouldn't surprise me a bit if you said, well by gosh that means....that means that a free will being might just do the opposite of God's will! After all you say.....he has FREE WILL. Right on!
4) So out of free will sadly sin came about. Now you have disobedience. But you jump in and say, "Hey because there's now sin God must have wanted it! Why? Because he's their creator? So if you've had kids, they found their origin from you, and they became disobedient and even got in trouble with the law and then others came along and sad THEIR FATHER MUST HAVE WANTED THIS TO HAPPEN!
You wouldn't feel insulted by such a charge leveled by another? You wouldn't say, "How dare you say something like that about me!" ??? And yet you say these things about the loving, kind, merciful God? Sure you don't want to reconsider that position?
1) I said to you what God really wanted was for mankind to have FREE WILL. No offence but you understand what I mean by that as in THAT'S WHAT GOD WANTED?
2) NOW...why would God want that? Because he did not want beings who were like robots mere automations.
3) Now....because God got what HE WANTED....beings with free will you tell me Dave, that being the case what potentially could happen? You know it wouldn't surprise me a bit if you said, well by gosh that means....that means that a free will being might just do the opposite of God's will! After all you say.....he has FREE WILL. Right on!
4) So out of free will sadly sin came about. Now you have disobedience. But you jump in and say, "Hey because there's now sin God must have wanted it! Why? Because he's their creator? So if you've had kids, they found their origin from you, and they became disobedient and even got in trouble with the law and then others came along and sad THEIR FATHER MUST HAVE WANTED THIS TO HAPPEN!
You wouldn't feel insulted by such a charge leveled by another? You wouldn't say, "How dare you say something like that about me!" ??? And yet you say these things about the loving, kind, merciful God? Sure you don't want to reconsider that position?
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
People have free will, as did Adam. But free will always responds to the reasons God uses to control our choices. He sovereignly causes us to choose exactly what we want to choose and exactly what he wants us to choose.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
They do if first resurrected. They also believe if born again.
Job 1:6Scripture please!
Then there is Ezekiel!... Brother Glen
Ezekiel 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
Rockson
Active Member
And do you think Satan would ever allow God to get away with that? YES I know a very strange question BUT consider the story of Job. The premise or belief in Heaven that God supported was this.....Man was serving God with freedom of will and the devil tried this very thing basically saying,
Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. Job 1:6,11
In other words if you were right isn't it true that the devil would have said, " You've put this hedge around him by controlling his will! Let him be his own person and see what he'll do!"
If one thinks about this, this should put to rest the idea of irresistible grace. Basically God responded to Satan with an allowance which would demonstrate once and for all that he doesn't control people and make their decisions for them. If they serve him it's because they have free will to do so not being hedged in because God set it up.
I want to repeat it was strange question to ask Would Satan allow God to get away with it, BUT there does seem to be universal laws and principles that God has established of which would be called righteous conduct even for him.
People have free will that "God controls". We freely choose what God chooses for us.
Wow, another entry for the Calvinist Dictionary.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Think of it this way. You freely choose what you want most based on the reasons God uses to control you.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Free will only responds to reasons beyond our control. God uses the reasons to control the choices we freely make.
Yes, and I'm certain you see no conflict between the words "freely choose" and "control you".
How do you predict God who has the power to execute events outside the time continuum?
How do you predict God who has the power to execute events outside the time continuum?
Taking lessons from Dave1689 on deflection with unrelated questions, I see.