Was Judas ever saved

[npetreley]

Where is your evidence, from scripture, that Jesus was speaking to Satan and not to Peter on that specific occasion? I don't believe there is a passage that states that.

But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”

Take your pick. "said to Peter" and "Get behind Me, Satan" has Jesus addressing both Peter and Satan directly. I don't think Peter was satan, and I don't think Peter was even possessed by satan. I think you're more on track with your analogy (in a different post). Jesus is simply identifying the source of that worldly kind of thinking, which is satan.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Were not the disciples being a stumbling block when they rebuked those who were bringing children to Jesus?

Why did He not call them devils or satan there?

 

[Rufus_1611]

Jesus did not call Peter a devil. He was speaking to that force that had Peter say the words he did... not Peter himself.

Jesus Christ called Peter, Satan. Get thee behind me Satan He said unto Peter.

"But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men." - Matthew 16:23​

Jesus Christ said get thee behind me Satan to Peter. Jesus Christ rebuked Peter.

"But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men." - Mark 8:33​

What verse would you point us to that says he was speaking to the force?

Further, how is "one of you is a devil" so diverse compared to "Get thee behind me, Satan"? Why is one automatically saved and the other is lost?

 

[Accountable]

Were not the disciples being a stumbling block when they rebuked those who were bringing children to Jesus?

Why did He not call them devils or satan there?

Ask God. He wrote the inspired Word.

He did call one of them something similar though in the same manner. His name was Judas. Jesus said he was the son of perdition. He also called Peter: Satan. You cannot accept this because it will totally destroy your manmade theology.
Peter repented of his sin and I believe God forgave.
Judas repented of his sin and I believe God forgave.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Verse 23. Get thee behind me, Satan. The word Satan means, literally, an adversary, or one that opposes us in the accomplishment of our designs. It is applied to the devil commonly, as the opposer or adversary of man. But there is no evidence that the Lord Jesus meant to apply this term to Peter, as signifying that he was Satan or the devil, or that he used the term in anger. He may have used it in the general sense which the word bore, as an adversary or opposer; and the meaning may be, that such sentiments as Peter expressed then were opposed to him and his plans. His interference was improper. His views and feelings stood in the way of the accomplishment of the Saviour's designs. There was, undoubtedly, a rebuke in this language; for the conduct of Peter was improper; but the idea which is commonly attached to it, and which, perhaps, our translation conveys, implies a more severe and harsh rebuke than the Saviour intended, and than the language which he used would express. --Albert Barnes

 

[Accountable]

Verse 23. Get thee behind me, Satan. The word Satan means, literally, an adversary, or one that opposes us in the accomplishment of our designs. It is applied to the devil commonly, as the opposer or adversary of man. But there is no evidence that the Lord Jesus meant to apply this term to Peter, as signifying that he was Satan or the devil, or that he used the term in anger. He may have used it in the general sense which the word bore, as an adversary or opposer; and the meaning may be, that such sentiments as Peter expressed then were opposed to him and his plans. His interference was improper. His views and feelings stood in the way of the accomplishment of the Saviour's designs. There was, undoubtedly, a rebuke in this language; for the conduct of Peter was improper; but the idea which is commonly attached to it, and which, perhaps, our translation conveys, implies a more severe and harsh rebuke than the Saviour intended, and than the language which he used would express. --Albert Barnes

Where's the fundamentalism? What else has have you come to understand that we need to change in the Precious Word of God? Clearly you do not believe we should be fundamental in our studies of God's Word.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Judas' repentance was not a godly repentance. Judas, the son of perdition, never was saved.

Judas, when he repented, did not turn to God in repentance. He turned to man. He returned the silver and went out and hung himself.

Judas did not know Jesus as Lord. He was not saved.

 

[lbaker]

Were not the disciples being a stumbling block when they rebuked those who were bringing children to Jesus?

Why did He not call them devils or satan there?

The incident with Peter was a whole order of magnitude beyond what Jesus was dealing with in the incident with the children.

Jesus was extremely upset, emotionally torn, and speaking from that emotion with Peter. Remember, He wasn't particularly looking forward to crucifixion, even prayed that the cup would pass. Then here comes Peter trying to talk Him out of it, just the way Satan might do.

Just when He could have used a word of encouragement, Jesus hears something to tempt Him!

Les

 

[lbaker]

Verse 23. Get thee behind me, Satan. The word Satan means, literally, an adversary, or one that opposes us in the accomplishment of our designs. It is applied to the devil commonly, as the opposer or adversary of man. But there is no evidence that the Lord Jesus meant to apply this term to Peter, as signifying that he was Satan or the devil, or that he used the term in anger. He may have used it in the general sense which the word bore, as an adversary or opposer; and the meaning may be, that such sentiments as Peter expressed then were opposed to him and his plans. His interference was improper. His views and feelings stood in the way of the accomplishment of the Saviour's designs. There was, undoubtedly, a rebuke in this language; for the conduct of Peter was improper; but the idea which is commonly attached to it, and which, perhaps, our translation conveys, implies a more severe and harsh rebuke than the Saviour intended, and than the language which he used would express. --Albert Barnes

Wait a minute, this conflicts with what you said earlier, that Jesus was talking past Peter and directly to Satan who was influencing Peter.

Is this yet another recanting?

Les

 

[Accountable]

Judas' repentance was not a godly repentance. Judas, the son of perdition, never was saved.

Judas, when he repented, did not turn to God in repentance. He turned to man. He returned the silver and went out and hung himself.

Judas did not know Jesus as Lord. He was not saved.

Too many fallacies here to deal with in one blog.

1. Who says he was not repentive to God? You should use your own theology patterns with this one. Just as you say that the Bible doesn't specifically record miracles by the twelve, therefore it didn't happen.
Why not use your system of thought here? You are very hard to follow. You use one system to decifer your thoughts, then you reject the same system when you need too. Why do you do this and then call others double minded?

 

[Accountable]

PRAYER REQUEST!!!!!!!!

To all who will listen.... sorry for changing the "tone" here but I have an urgent prayer request.

One of the children that comes to our church has just drowned in a hot spring.
He was 11 years old. His birthday was Sunday. All of his family is Catholic but they have allowed him and his brothers to come to church and even be baptized.

He is now with the Lord but this is a tragic time for his family and for our church family here in Mexico.

Please pray fro his family and the children in our church as they will be greatly affected in his absence.

Regardles of what you think of me, think of them and pray. God bless.

Back to the topic at hand.

 

[lbaker]

Hey Accountable,

What's your take on the passage that RB put up from John 6? That really seems to indicate that Judas was never a believer after all.

(although I still think he worked miracles)

Les

 

[ReformedBaptist]

PRAYER REQUEST!!!!!!!!

To all who will listen.... sorry for changing the "tone" here but I have an urgent prayer request.

One of the children that comes to our church has just drowned in a hot spring.
He was 11 years old. His birthday was Sunday. All of his family is Catholic but they have allowed him and his brothers to come to church and even be baptized.

He is now with the Lord but this is a tragic time for his family and for our church family here in Mexico.

Please pray fro his family and the children in our church as they will be greatly affected in his absence.

Regardles of what you think of me, think of them and pray. God bless.

Back to the topic at hand.

raying: We are praying

 

[lbaker]

Will do. Kind of puts all this in a different perspective.

Les

 

[skypair]

Kay, For some reason or another, fundamentalists are afraid to be fundamental about this particular issue when they Bible speaks plainly about it.

Wow! You propose to know what others think??

To start, Judas was called by Jesus and He followed. To cut to the chase, nobody has any reason to believe he isn't saved till, as some would use this, he sells out for the silver.

True -- BUT Jesus even identified one of them as the "devil" much earlier. All that the Father gives Me I keep except one that it might be fulfilled..."

One of the scriptures I would use to prove Judas was saved would be this one, as spoken at the Last Supper where ALL TWELVE were present and as Jesus spoke to the TWELVE.

You mean one of the scriptures that "shipwrecks" you theology?? Your logic is getting "lame," jim. Did you notice that Judas left before the dinner was over????

Accountable, Judas "demon" is the one who inhabits AC. I don't even think you want to procede along this line of argumentation. He "went to his place" in Acts 1:25 -- the "bottomless pit" from which he will be released in the 5th trumpet. Don't dig yourself a grave you can't climb out of, friend.

skypair

 

[skypair]

What did Judas fall from?

Acts 1:25 25to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs."

Someone told me that meant he fell from salvation.
Thanks

Hey Kay! Welcome to BB!

He didn't "fall from salvation." He never was saved. He's like a lot of people in the MK -- hoped to profit from Christ's kingdom by feining discipleship but find out that there's no future in it! :tear:

I've heard from reliable sources that Judas demon is the "prince of this world" who comes out of the bottomless pit to possess AC.

skypair

 

[skypair]

Surely it would have been recorded somewhere if Judas was the only one of the twelve who didn't work miracles?

The fact that Jesus did give Judas the same authority and orders that He gave the other eleven, with no passage to indicate otherwise, lends credibility to the idea that Judas did indeed work miracles just like the others.

Without a passage that clearly indicates Judas didn't work miracles, we can't really say with authority that he didn't.

Les

Can we say that Satan doesn't work "all power and signs and lying wonders," 2Thes 2??

skypair

 

[Lacy Evans]

Excellent. That is amazing. Does this Scripture help shed light on this aspect of the question:

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

I only wanted to highlight this one portion of Scripture in your answer and ask what i always ask.

What if this only means what it says and not what we think it means?

 

[Accountable]

Hey Kay! Welcome to BB!

He didn't "fall from salvation." He never was saved. He's like a lot of people in the MK -- hoped to profit from Christ's kingdom by feining discipleship but find out that there's no future in it! :tear:

I've heard from reliable sources that Judas demon is the "prince of this world" who comes out of the bottomless pit to possess AC.

skypair

I pray that I am misunderstanding your post. Please clarify. You equate Judas to the ME believers. Are you saying we are not saved because we dissagree on 1,000 years with you?

 

[skypair]

I pray that I am misunderstanding your post. Please clarify. You equate Judas to the ME believers. Are you saying we are not saved because we dissagree on 1,000 years with you?

Yeah, you misunderstand. I am not equating Judas to anyone (unless you are convicted -- are you?). I am merely answering to the question of Judas.

skypair