standingfirminChrist
New Member
Lacy Evans said:
You forget, Jesus said why they would not enter the Kingdom... He never knew them!
They were'nt saved.
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Was Judas ever saved
- Thread starter Kay
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You forget, Jesus said why they would not enter the Kingdom... He never knew them!
They were'nt saved.
charles_creech78
New Member
John 13:10 jesus saith to him, he that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: AND YE ARE CLEAN BUT NOT ALL. John 13:11 For he knew who should betray him; therefor said he, YE ARE NOT ALL CLEAN. John 13;25 He then lying on JESUS' breast saith unto him, LORD, who is it? John 13:26 Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of simon. John 13:27 And after the sop SATAN ENTERED INTO HIM. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly. I don't think he was saved.
saturneptune
New Member
OK, here is the answer to this puzzle. Judas was a Calvinist and ordained to be lost forever. Peter was an Arminian and chose to repent. Thomas doubted he was either.skypair said:
Lacy Evans
New Member
saturneptune said:
I think I wet myself!:laugh: :laugh:
Lacy
Tom Butler
New Member
Kay, welcome. Your first post was a doozy. Really stirred the folks up, didn't it?
I don't want to be a party-pooper, but I just looked at your profile and you list yourself as non-denominational. Under the rules, only Baptists may post in the first few categories. The headers show which ones. So you're now out of this debate while it rages on.
Check out the categories open to all Christians, particularly the one "Other Christian Denominations."
I hope you'll enjoy your visits here. Got any other hot buttons you'd like to push?
I don't want to be a party-pooper, but I just looked at your profile and you list yourself as non-denominational. Under the rules, only Baptists may post in the first few categories. The headers show which ones. So you're now out of this debate while it rages on.
Check out the categories open to all Christians, particularly the one "Other Christian Denominations."
I hope you'll enjoy your visits here. Got any other hot buttons you'd like to push?
BrianReimer
New Member
Yes, I believe Judas, as with all the twelve disciples, is saved. Jesus would not appoint a Kingdom to Judas as He did in Luke 22:29 if he were not saved. In addition, I do believe an important principle is to be gleaned from the Judas episode. I heard a wise preacher preach on this and I still have the notes. To keep this brief I will cite only two passages and state my thesis.Kay said:
Passage 1:
1Sa 2:27 And there came a man of God unto Eli…
1Sa 2:29 Wherefore kick ye at my sacrifice and at mine offering, which I have commanded in my habitation; and honorest thy sons above me, to make yourselves fat with the chiefest of all the offerings of Israel my people?
1Sa 2:30 Wherefore the LORD God of Israel saith, I said indeed that thy house, and the house of thy father, should walk before me forever: but now the LORD saith, Be it far from me; for them that honor me I will honor, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed.
Passage 2:
2Ki 20:1 In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And the prophet Isaiah the son of Amoz came to him, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Set thine house in order; for thou shalt die, and not live.
2Ki 20:2 Then he turned his face to the wall, and prayed unto the LORD, saying,
2Ki 20:3 I beseech thee, O LORD, remember now how I have walked before thee in truth and with a perfect heart, and have done that which is good in thy sight. And Hezekiah wept sore.
2Ki 20:4 And it came to pass, before Isaiah was gone out into the middle court, that the word of the LORD came to him, saying,
2Ki 20:5 Turn again, and tell Hezekiah the captain of my people, Thus saith the LORD, the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will heal thee: on the third day thou shalt go up unto the house of the LORD.
2Ki 20:6 And I will add unto thy days fifteen years;
Thesis:
What we see in these passages is a principle in scriptures that often promises (and sometimes even warnings) contain implied conditions; they are not necessarily absolute.
While Judas was among the twelve appointed a kingdom by the Lord:
Luke 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
Judas betrayed the Lord. (Which Jesus knew he would as he stated prior in verse 21 when He made this statement of appointment in verse 29, later.)
If Judas had only repented to God and gone on to serve the Lord I believe he would have kept his appointment. However Matthew 27:5 states:
Mat 27:5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
I realize Matthew 27:3-4 states he repented of his betrayal but killing yourself is an heinous final act that one cannot repent of. For that reason it is unlikely to me that he would retain his appointment in the Kingdom.
My larger point here is that the 1000 year Kingdom of our Lord (which is to complete the 7000 year plan for man gaining dominion on earth) is conditional to gain entrance to it. And God is very prolific in His scripture in providing both blessed promises and warnings in this regard to Kingdom entrance. Praise Jesus because of His work at calvary, for those who believe, our position is secure with Him for all eternity thereafter.
ReformedBaptist
Well-Known Member
BrianReimer said:
Is this that Me'er stuff everyone has been debating?
Hope of Glory
New Member
Hmm... That's funny. I know plenty of EIREITADers and KDers who also think that Judas was spiritually saved, but that he lost it, I also know some who can see from the plainness of Scriptures that he was saved, but think he was just used as a type by Christ, and still others who can see the fact that it is so easily laid out that he was saved, but at the JSOC, he will feel shame and lose some of his paradise pie.
Brian -- it appears to me that Luke leaves out the order of events in his account of the Last Supper. To me, the promise of Luke 22:29 came after Judas had left.BrianReimer said:
From looking at the other gospels, it appears to me that the order was something like this: They ate the Passover first. This is where Judas got the "sop" which, upon eating, he left the premises. Then Jesus washed their feet -- then He instituted the Eucharist/communion.
As you note, Judas was given one more chance to be saved but resisted. He has no promises in Christ.
skypair
Accountable
New Member
Chapter and verse please?Amy.G said:
I see nowhere where Jesus SAID he was lost.
Accountable
New Member
Your taking this out of context if you are trying to say that this means he was never saved.Amy.G said:
In the parables of lost things, the sheep, the coin, and the son, none speak of the lost as not being a regenerated.
1. The sheep was already the sheep of the shepard before he BECAME LOST.
2. The coin was already owned by the woman before it was LOST.
3. The prodigal son was already a son to the father before he was LOST.
New Testament (Greek)Accountable said:
G684 apōleia ä-pō'-lā-ä perdition, destruction, waste, damnable, to die, perish, pernicious
Judas was the son of perdition. I have never read of any saved person in all of God's word being referred to as the son of perdition other than Judas.
Accountable
New Member
I must appologize for being hasety and not wording my blog properly. Sometimes I get in a hurry.Amy.G said:
My thoughts were not properly reprsented by what I wrote.
I am totaly aware of what Jesus said. My question should have been posted differently. Where does Jesus say that Judas was never saved?
As we dealt with earlier with the word saved in a nother blog, it doesn't always apply to salvation by grace.
The Word lost doesn't deal with one who is not saved spiritually either.
In the parables of lost things, the sheep, the coin, and the son, none speak of the lost as not being a regenerated.
This should serve as ample example:
1. The sheep was already the sheep of the shepard before he BECAME LOST.
2. The coin was already owned by the woman before it was LOST.
3. The prodigal son was already a son to the father before he was LOST.
Accountable
New Member
What does your Greek say Satan means when Jesus was dealing with Peter?Amy.G said:
Also sorry about the double blog, I was trying to reply in edit form but didn't work out that way.
Definition of Satan in Greek?
Last edited by a moderator:
Lost
New Testament (Greek)
G622 apollymi ä-po'l-lü-mē perish, destroy, lose, be lost, lost, misc
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
G622 apollymi ä-po'l-lü-mē perish, destroy, lose, be lost, lost, misc
The Lord said Judas was lost. He perished, was destroyed, did not receive everlasting life.
New Testament (Greek)
G622 apollymi ä-po'l-lü-mē perish, destroy, lose, be lost, lost, misc
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
G622 apollymi ä-po'l-lü-mē perish, destroy, lose, be lost, lost, misc
The Lord said Judas was lost. He perished, was destroyed, did not receive everlasting life.
Accountable
New Member
I'm sorry, maybe you misread the blog. I didn't ask for the greek for lost but for Satan. Why do you accuse us from running away when you choose to vere in another direction?Amy.G said:
Also you have made no attempt to rectify how the LOST Son was ALREADY the SON of HIS FATHER. Have you left "OSAS" and converted to Armenial views?
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