DHK said:
Fundamental truth is found in the Word of God.
The virgin birth is a foundational doctrine of Chrtistianity, just as important as the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.
What does the Bible say about His birth:
Do I deny Virgin Birth? You must note that I presented the virgin Birth of Jesus by a Surrogate Mother !
It talks about the "seed of a woman" (Genesis 3:15)
Seed meant the Descendant so many times in the Bible. In most case it meant the Biological relationship, but in this case, this is the only and unique case, and the Fundamental Truth is that Word became Flesh.
It speaks of Christ being "made of a woman" (Gal.4:4)
Do you mean Woman made the Christ? Woman produced the Christ?
It means that Christ came out of Woman.
It was prophesied by Isa. that a virgin would conceive (Isa.7:14)
By surrogate relationship.
That reference has been referred to many times in the NT.
The angel reassured Mary that the Holy Spirit would come upon her and she would conceive through the Holy Spirit.
By surrogate motherhood, she conceived by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit worked out that.
Furthermore Mary herself rejoices in God her Savior indicating that she herself is in need of Savior, futher admitting that she is a sinner; for only sinners need a Saviour.
So, you are admitting that the sinners egg became sinless person, right?
Christ is deity, and always was. He was born of a virgin, but his deity never changed. He was not born of Joseph through which the sin nature comes. He was born of the "seed" of Mary (Gen.3:15)--a miraculous event, conceived of the Holy Spirit. Thus He did not have a sin nature, though his human nature did come from Mary. It is the only way that he could inherit a human nature and come into this world as man, suffer as man, live as man, and finally die as man--and yet all this time remain as God.
If God can change the sinful woman's egg into sinless person, why didn't He do it for many people? Jesus came as the Second Adam thru His surrogate mother.
He laid aside his divine attributes when he went to the cross willingly of his own accord. He didn't have to. He didn't have to go to the cross. The Bible says that he could have called 12 legions of angels to defend himself but he didn't. He went to the cross anyway to die for you and me.
He was still God Himself while He was on this Earth though He didn't use that title with some exceptions when Thomas called Him my God. This is not a problem here. The most problem is how you can compromise with Word became Flesh when you claim Mary is the Biological Mother.
If the egg was used, was it stimulated by the Holy Spirit, or processed by or inspired by the Holy Spirit? Why doesn't He do it for all the eggs of the world?
What is your point here? Mary gave birth to Jesus. The Bible says he did. Read Luke 2.
As if I denied it !
There were three classes of people:
1. Those that were totally ignorant of the birth of Christ, and accused Christ of being born of fornication--not even recognizing Joseph as a father.
2. Those that unwittingly and naively accepted (but wrongly) that Joseph was his father.
Neither of these groups knew much of the birth of Christ, and wrongly assumed that he was from Galilee or from Nazareth.
John 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
John 7:41 Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?
Very few took the time to look into the facts: Where did Christ really come from.
1. He was born in Bethlehem of Ephratha.
2. He was born of Mary, conceived of the Holy Spirit.
3. Most important of all, He came from Heaven. (John 3:13)
Read about Joseph's genealogy:
[FONT="]Jer. 22:24-30 shows that the curse of Jechoniah demanded the virgin birth.[/FONT]
[FONT="]a. The Lord's promise to David (2 Sam.7:16): Thine house and thy kingdom shall be established forever before thee: thy throne shall be established forever."[/FONT]
[FONT="]b. Several generations later Jehoiachin (Coniah) was cursed (Jer.22:30): Thus saith the Lord write this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days; for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting on the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah.[/FONT]
[FONT="]c. The physical link was cursed by God.[/FONT]
[FONT="]d. Joseph, the legal father of Jesus, was of this cursed line.[/FONT]
[FONT="]e. The solution: Mary was a descendant of Nathan, another son of David (Lk.3:31).[/FONT]
[FONT="]f. There was no other way that the Lord Jesus could have escaped the curse. The fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy of the virgin birth is the only way the Lord could be true to His promise to David and His curse on Jehoiachin.[/FONT]
Jesus was born of a virgin. His flesh came from Mary. His sin nature did not. All throughout He remained God. He never relinquished his deity, though he set aside his divine attributes for a temporary period of time.
You have misunderstood the Bible quite a lot.
Jer 22:30 says he would be childless. How come Joseph become his descendant?
What the Bible said there is that Jesus would not come as a King of David's famil, which actually come true. The royal family was finished.
Jesus is the King of Kings.
Was the Nathan's family sinless?
Was Mary sinless?
If Jesus couldn't take anything from the body of Joseph because his family was sinful, the same applies to the Mary's family as well.
What Roman Catholic claims today is that The Blood of Jesus shed at the Cross came from the body of Mary, and even the body of Jesus was a part of Mary, which the Bible clearly rejects as it says " Word became Flesh"
What you have to convince is how you can compromise between
Word became Flesh
and
Mary is the Biological Mother, not the Surrogate Mother.
If anything of Mary was used to form the body of Jesus, it means Flesh ( of Mary) became Flesh ( of Jesus), and therefore you are denying the fundamental Truth.
If Any flesh, or Blood, or cell, or egg ( or Ovum) of Mary was used, Jesus would have been born as a sinner, which is untrue.
