saturneptune said:
Do you actually think that abortion, homosexuality, pornography, unChristian music and TV did not exist in the 50s and 60s? Read the thread on Sgt Pepper.
Saturneptune that is a pretty convoluted post as to what I was saying and in regards to the O.P. and yes I saw the thread on Sgt. Pepper.
My post as with the O.P. deals with the
decline of morals and attitudes. I have never said America was a perfect nation, as nor any Christian living is or ever having lived was. I don't see how anyone can really debate this but I will address each of your examples.
1) Please show where abortion was
legal and greatly accepted in American history with the murder of 1.5 million children each year, as it is today? That is something which only came about in recent history as America moved from a more Godly nature and with some Liberal Supreme Court judges, self proclaimed in some cases, during the 1960's. As they ruled in fashion contrary to the Founders intent and 150 years of Supreme Court decisions! Such was also contrary to the will of the American people during that time and historically speaking with the banning of Ten Commandments, removal of voluntary school prayer, and eventual abortion ruling etc.
Abortion laws began in the 1820's and abortions were banned all together by the 1900's. There were also moral laws banning contraceptive devices but you would have to check the specific history on that.
In 1965 every State had laws banning abortion, with a few exceptions in saving the mothers life or in cases of rape. However certain groups began pressuring the relaxation or banning of these laws. In 1973 with Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court ruled most every States abortion laws were unconstitutional. This was a bad ruling as there is nothing in the Constitution which addresses abortion and
Amendment 10 specifically states
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people".
They usurped the States/Peoples rights and historical Supreme Court rulings on numerous issues of great importance for which we are still living with. The abortion issue alone speaks enough in regards to the O.P. but in continuing……
2) Please show where homosexuality was historically
accepted and blatantly promoted even to children as you find today in American? Where homosexual groups and such openly attack Christianity all the while promoting their agenda's unimpeded. That is something which has only arisen in the last decade or two for which I have witnessed myself.
3) Please show where in American history pornography was so
widely prevalent, blatant and accepted as it is today? That is something which really began in the 60's with soft porn as Playboy but grew drastically with the truly hardcore as Hustler and even worse, as found today. This has occurred as moral laws based on Christianity have become relaxed or banned. Laws such as with Sunday closings, pornography, homosexuality, gambling, alcohol etc. See blue laws or as an example the Comstock law(1873) which is specific to this and other issues.
"Act for the Suppression of Trade in, and Circulation of, Obscene Literature and Articles for Immoral Use" http://womenshistory.about.com/od/laws/a/comstock_law.htm
4) I did not say “unchristian” music but that is splitting hairs. I have no problem with
secular music as many on this forum would refer to it. I think any good song with a good message could have been inspired by God. It doesn't have to necessarily be a Christian song with Christian lyrics to be good, so to say. I was speaking about how some entire genres of music has gone
to the extreme with lyrics and promiscuous dance.
I understand each generation typically complains about the newer generations music. When Elvis first came out there was even outcry against his antics and some lyrics. However, at no time did you have F. this and F. that, or G.D. and B. that, as you have in recent history. In defense of Elvis though he matured with his lyrics and presence.
Yes sex and drugs was often, or became, a theme with Rock and Roll but you still have that and even much more today. Which in fact makes my point!
The Beetles is a good example to bring up though in this regards to the O.P. Remember when John Lennon stated they were more popular than Jesus. There was outrage throughout America with that statement which this freelance writer accurately describes
Lennon was always the instigator and experimenter in the Beatles, having given the group its name — spelled with an A: he got the gang to try drugs, Eastern mysticism, and wrote the more "spiritual" of their lyrics. On 4 March 1966 The Evening Standard published an interview in which Lennon said,
Christianity will go. It will vanish and shrink. I needn't argue about that; I'm right and I will be proved right. We're more popular than Jesus now; I don't know which will go first-rock 'n' roll or Christianity. Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. It's them twisting it that ruins it for me.
The US press took the quote and ran with it. Radio stations, especially in the South and in the Midwest, gave Beatles music the Dixie Chicks treatment — they stopped the music; there were death threats; albums were burned en masse. A Cleveland clergyman (Thurman H. Babbs) threatened his congregation with excommunication should they listen to the Beatles. The Ku Klux Klan burned the Beatles in effigy. Pressed to make amends for offending an all-powerful deity, Lennon told reporters in Chicago,
"I'm not saying that we're better or greater, or comparing us with Jesus Christ as a person or God as a thing or whatever it is. ... I wasn't saying whatever they're saying I was saying. I'm sorry I said it really. I never meant it to be a lousy anti-religious thing. I apologize if that will make you happy. I still don't know quite what I've done. I've tried to tell you what I did do but if you want me to apologize, if that will make you happy, then OK, I'm sorry".
http://www.ronaldbrucemeyer.com/rants/1009a-almanac.htm
BBC radio also gives an account which is applicable to the O.P.
"The interview caused little controversy on publication in England, where it was regarded as just another example of the waning relevance of the church for the younger generation. But when it was reprinted in an American magazine four months later on the eve of a Beatles tour of the USA, it caused an outrage. KLUE radio in Longview, Texas staged a public burning of Beatle records. Station WAQY in Birmingham Alabama encouraged its listeners to destroy Beatles discs. In all, twenty two radio stations banned the group's music from the airwaves and the Klu Klux Klan arranged anti-Beatles demonstrations. The Vatican denounced Lennon and Beatles albums were banned in South Africa".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/events/lennon/jesus.shtml
It is relevant to the O.P. because today there would be little such outrage over these type remarks, which commonly occur in various settings today. The easiest thing to do would be to listen to music from even the 40's, 50's, 60's to today. I don't see how anyone could say there is not a significant difference in attitudes.
I will say this. There does seem to be a change taking place within music as Country still invokes Christ name with lyrics and some other genres are under pressure to tone down the vulgarity.
5) There is no better or obvious example as to the decline in morals or general attitudes than with T.V. One can easily look at the overwhelmingly and good family oriented shows of the past as compared to programming today. It is now common place to have a show with a gay couple or gay theme. You don’t have the family oriented programming or themes today as was so prevalent in decades past.
The divorce rate and out of wedlock births is another example of moral decline and attitudes which is easily traced.
http://www.divorcereform.org/ill.html
or
http://www.ncpa.org/pd/social/pd110999c.html
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America is still the greatest nation ever conceived by man but it has drifted from our more Godly and family oriented roots. I can only pray we again will return to something more reminiscent to that.
Take care
