Don't look at me!!Jarthur001 said:hey john....
what did I tell ya.
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Well known Calvinist that have died for the faith
- Thread starter Jarthur001
- Start date
And allow me to point out the title of your thread: "Well known Calvinist (sic) that have died for the faith." This time please note the word in bold and somewhat larger letters. :smilewinkgrin: :smilewinkgrin:Jarthur001 said:
I agree and acknowleged those two were paraphrases. THEN I showed you the exact quote which of course you didn't comment on. Then again you couldn't without affirming my contentionJarthur001 said:
Actaully Rippon doesn't quote ONE of the writters, and I asked again and again where his quotes from Gill could be found (orginal quotes Gill took from) - He gave me Gills pg numbers from Gills book :laugh: .
The only thing he could give is quoting Gill 'assumedly' quoting them. I on the other hand give excatly where it could be located, where it was found, and then the exact quote of the Early CHurch Father and or Reformer. http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=938642&postcount=27
Though I like Gill, I will take the original authors word over someone saying some said - anyday.
Again, no he does not. He gives Gills word for it.
I in turn give excatly where it could be located, where it was found, and then the exact quote of the Early CHurch Father and or Reformer.
Same as before
Adding this one is a deception without showing what was written by me both before and after - like this post immediately after:
Why do you do persist in being dishonest concerning this thread. It speaks for itself and that NOTHING I presented was refuted, not there nor anywhere else.
I agree, please go back and re-read it.tell ya what...why not read the whole thread.
You, by your OWN WORDS confess you did not read them all but you questions only stop at the second one of the whole list. I only corrected the paraphrases of TWO, but they DID IN FACT state what was given and you did not deny that then either.
IF I MAY - I don't wish to specifically bring up the old thread in realation to this one. I was mearly showing you specifically acknowledged and "do not deny the doctrines of grace was not talked about from around 120-320ad.", not the rest of it per sey.
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I noticed you didn't answer my questionJarthur001 said:why? because Sky "the calvin basher" asked.
the old thread was closed...therefore this thread.
Would you like to answer the OP? if you read the OP i have asked what you want to hear. At this point not one name is given.
Now, if you were refering to Toplady:
This shows the pure ignorance of Toplady.
It also reveals his hate and disdain (much akin to his railings against Wesley) without any real proof for his accusations.
But again, I ask you to please answer my question previously mentioned before and here in.
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Jarthur001
Active Member
Allan said:
Not true..
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=935501&postcount=20
do you not understand????
Please take the time to reread your post with Gill beside it. Now, think about it Allan. Was what you quoted ORIGINAL QUOTES BY THE WRITER??????
My guess is that your quotes were from lightfoot or maybe smith. I don't know. But this I'm sure. They were not original.
Again, no he does not. He gives Gills word for it.
I in turn give excatly where it could be located, where it was found, and then the exact quote of the Early CHurch Father and or Reformer.
Same as before
Yeah yeah....
.
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Jarthur001
Active Member
Allan said:I noticed you didn't answer my question
You are right. Maybe you got me. Maybe you have me between a rock and a hard place and have no answer. Or maybe I didn't read it before.
I was not trying to prove what he said was true. I don't really care. I asked others to add to a list. So far...no one has added a name. I said I know 1. But I also understand why no one wants to claim this 1.
LET ME ASK AGAIN...
Do you have any to add to that list?
ok
who is we? You have said before, you are not a free-willer. You just said something about Wesley. Is this the we? If so, Wesley did preach another salvation plan.
John of Japan said:Let me get this straight...you are claiming as Calvinists Paul, a bunch of Romans, Augustine, the Waldenses and a bunch of other people who lived before Calvin systemetized his doctrine? Absurd!
One more reason to stay out of the C/A debates!
Didn't he forget Jesus? Wasn't he a Calvinist? He sure died for the faith... :godisgood: :BangHead: :BangHead:
saturneptune
New Member
That is an excellent truth. In this country today, we enjoy such protection and freedom that the worst persecution we are going to suffer is being made fun of or shunned. Isn't that ridiculous compared to some who died for the faith? And yes, maybe someday it will change. God bless our troops for fighting to keep us free and safe.ReformedBaptist said:
Jarthur,
Good to see you out and about.
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Ooh, that's a tuffy! Was Jesus a martyr??LeBuick said:
Jarthur001 said:Ok, let me rephrase it: You didn't say anything about the quote being incorrect or taken out of context but instead stated "you don't have a problem with the quotes as they were wrote", AND that you "do not deny the doctrines of grace was not talked about from around 120-320ad"
That is the second time you have assumed the quote was from lightfoot or smith. And I will say again just as I explained the last time - It was a quick cut and paste from Ron Rhodes a 4 point Calvinist. AND THE REASON I copied it was because I was at work when a question (way back when) came up concerning Calvinists always holding "L". I copied it from Rhodes BECAUSE they quotes I ALREADY had SEEN and KNEW from previous studies regarding it. (my earlier studies of Calvinism and if it was closest to the scriptures).Please take the time to reread your post with Gill beside it. Now, think about it Allan. Was what you quoted ORIGINAL QUOTES BY THE WRITER??????
My guess is that your quotes were from lightfoot or maybe smith. I don't know. But this I'm sure. They were not original.
You are correct the 'initial' posting was from another but "I" went back and place WHERE the quote came from THUS THE QUOTES WERE ORIGINAL as shown by their sourse but given in a collected manner by another. So, though it was in form from another what I had set forth IN THAT LIST , or both the Original quote and the source of where it was from. Something Rippon didn't do upon repeated requests.
Again, NOTHING I presented was refuted.
Albeit I was corrected regarding two paraphrases, the intial intent and subject matter was not incorrect.
The point about you persisting in being dishonest is about your continuing to try to twist it around. Just let the people read what You and I both posted without warping it by your commentary.
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Jarthur001 said:Now waaaaaiiiiit a minute. This was very sneaky. The original quotes you gave from the church fathers did NOT say this. The nearest I can find said, "my servant whom I have chosen, that ye may know, and believe" (emphasis yours). First of all, this was a church father quoting Isaiah, not giving his own view. Secondly, the "servant" God chose in this Isaiah passage was Jesus, not a believer. He was chosen that we might know and believe Him.John of Japan said:
I'm disappointed in you over this in several ways, Jarthur001.
Allan said:
I assumed this thread was started as a reply to a question made by Skypair in another thread that was then closed. Skypair asked where the reformed martyrs are, and then later on he asked if there were any calvinist martyrs.
If that's the case, then the specific focus is because it's an answer to a specific question, and it's not meant to insinuate anything about other Christian martyrs.
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If that be true, (and no doubt it is) it shows the ignorance of Skypair and his disdain for the Cals. But by the same token, James quotes Toplady and then states:russell55 said:
He can only think of one Non-Calvinist who ever died for his faith in Christ and then asks "is there another".
He can think of many Calvinists in general who died for their faith along side those specific names and yet not even in general can he think of more than 'one' non-cal?
This places James just as ignorant as Sky and the disdain they have for those not like them. To ignore the multitudes who died for and in the name of Christ their Lord, because do not follow your personal opinions of scripture is sickening and unchrist-like - UNLESS you believe we preach another gospel and by acknowledging such state as unequivical and scripture they are Accursed and unsaved.
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2 Timothy2:1-4
New Member
Paul did not retain the ungodly nickname of "Calvinist" and was clearly against such as he made clear in ! Cor 1. Dying as a "Calvinist" is not impressive in the least. However there have been many Christians who have died for the faith throughout the years and continue to do so who should always be remembered.
Jarthur001
Active Member
Allan said:little was said by either side in that time. I gave good reason for this when talking with John.Jarthur001 said:
I do not have a problem with the quptes as they read.
I do have a problem with you calling them quotes when you add words.
what else?
when was the 1st time?
I rest my case.
Aand were you at work when you repost the last 20 times even though you know it is wrong?
That has nothing to do with the debate. You failed to see Rippon's point a year ago, and each time you repost, for you will not listen. Maybe if you slowed down you could see something.
The quotes I read and you posted were NOT original.
Allan sir, you be wrong here. It is rather easy to see where you fail, if you would slow down and think about it.
You mean I do not count?
Ok..maybe not me, but surly Rippton.
As it turns out there were more then two, I just stopped looking and posting on it.Albeit I was corrected regarding two paraphrases, the intial intent and subject matter was not incorrect.
Any time you wish to know why I claim these things, let me know and I will gladly show you.
JustChristian
New Member
2 Timothy2:1-4 said:
From what I could find, St. Augustine was not a martyr:
Augustine died on August 28, 430 during the siege of Hippo by the Vandals. He is said to have encouraged its citizens to resist the attacks, primarily on the grounds that the Vandals adhered to the Arian heresy. It is also said that he died just as the Vandals were tearing down the city walls of Hippo.
Jarthur001
Active Member
John of Japan said:OKJarthur001 said:
.
what?
.
Who said it did? I asked if you believe that statement. You said you did. Will you now take it back?
That would be it.
Indeed..I know the passage very well.
You said..."prove the TULIP from the Apostolic Fathers. Take your time, don't hurry, you may be studying awhile. I'll give you a head start. The term "election" only occurs twice in the Apostolic Fathers, and here they are"
I gave you the very words as you asked from the Apostolic Fathers as you asked. I gave you page number chapter and book. I met what you asked. You however did not follow though as you said you would.
Funny you grab one quote from the Bible to talk about and skip over the others. The fact that they quote this, and the way in which it is quoted shows what they believed. You fail to see this because you will not allow your pride to be gone.
I was upfront and told you no TULIP, but election yes. You set the bar..I reached the bar, now it is you that pulls back.
John let it be known now.... I did not mislead, misquote not lie in any way. You best make sure you know what your talking about before going this path. Make sure you mean what you just posted.
:I'm disappointed in you over this in several ways, Jarthur001.
Man will let you down. Trust only God.
Jarthur001
Active Member
indeed...therefore he was a martyr. If he had not taken a stand, he would have nt be killed by the VandalsBaptistBeliever said: