Were OT saints born again?

[timtofly]

It is!

The only difference is a record in history. And Jesus said, we must be born again. It is the same thing. Until Jesus Christ actually lived here, it was born again from above. It still is being born again from above. This side of the cross we have no excuse not to be. It is still our own free choice, just like it was before the cross.

 

[kyredneck]

It is still our own free choice,

Our heavenly birth is no more our choice than was our physical birth.

 

[Yeshua1]

Did the OT Saints have the Spirit of God dwelling IN them?

God regenerated them, but did not indwelt them until Pentacost !

 

[kyredneck]

Did the OT Saints have the Spirit of God dwelling IN them?

When I consider passages such as this:

I rejoice at thy word, As one that findeth great spoil. Ps 119:162

or this:

But his delight is in the law of Jehovah; And on his law doth he meditate day and night. Ps 1:2

or these:

16 I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget thy word. GIMEL.
18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold Wondrous things out of thy law. Ps 119

...and then consider that those OT Saints had only a fraction of the scriptures that we have; it was incomplete and lacking the fulfillment/revelation of the NT, and yet they were able to derive great joy and delight from meditating in the law. I don't think the natural man void of the Spirit could derive that sort of pleasure from those incomplete writings (or even in the Bible we have today for that matter), the Spirit had to be the source of the joy.

 

[Jedi Knight]

Peter even referred to the spirit of Christ within them......speaking of OT prophets. Jesus was very much alive and well in the OT as the Holy Spit was and they were regenerated just the same looking forward.When in the NT Jesus said I will send the Holy Spirit it was nothing new it was power to do his will and the disciples were told he was leaving.

 

[Van]

How could they have discernment unless the spirit of God was in them? Jesus asked Nickodemus you are a teacher and don't know this? They wondered what time or situation the Spirit of Christ WITHIN them was talking about when he told them in advance about Christ’s suffering and his great glory afterward.1 Peter 1:11

One mistaken view begets more mistaken views. The OT Saints went to "Abraham's bosom" not heaven because they had not yet been "made perfect." Hebrews 11:39-40

Only those placed "in Christ" are born anew, and therefore able to be indwelt.

1 Peter 1:11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.

All that is being said here is that the scriptures being searched were inspired by the Spirit of Christ. No support for indwelling whatsoever.

 

[Jedi Knight]

One mistaken view begets more mistaken views.

Nothing condescending about this right? I believe you are off but that's OK.......you're entitled to be mistaken. The spirit gives light,life,and illumination which they cannot get on their own. Another before Pentecost mind you. “For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother’s womb”.–Luke 1:15

 

[1689Dave]

Did the OT Saints have the Spirit of God dwelling IN them?

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Hebrews 11 lists many who were born again. You cannot believe in any true sense unless born again.

 

[kyredneck]

Peter even referred to the spirit of Christ within them......speaking of OT prophets.

Surely you're not suggesting that only the prophets could delight in the scriptures; it doesn't say "blessed is the prophet", it says "blessed is the man":

1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the wicked, Nor standeth in the way of sinners, Nor sitteth in the seat of scoffers:
2 But his delight is in the law of Jehovah; And on his law doth he meditate day and night. Ps 1

 

[Jedi Knight]

Surely you're not suggesting that only the prophets could delight in the scriptures

No and my name is not Surely.

 

[Jedi Knight]

God regenerated them, but did not indwelt them until Pentacost !

Regeneration IS the work of the Spirit in them so that is a contradiction. Was John The Baptist filled with the Holy Spirit before Pentecost?

 

[Yeshua1]

Regeneration IS the work of the Spirit in them so that is a contradiction. Was John The Baptist filled with the Holy Spirit before Pentecost?

He was a specials case, as was filled from the womb!

 

[Van]

Nothing condescending about this right? I believe you are off but that's OK.......you're entitled to be mistaken. The spirit gives light,life,and illumination which they cannot get on their own. Another before Pentecost mind you. “For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother’s womb”.–Luke 1:15

Sir, your claim folks could not understand scripture unless indwelt was the mistake which led to the idea the OT Saints must have been indwelt.
The OT Saints gained "approval" through faith, but were not indwelt because they had yet to be made perfect. The claim the OT Saints were indwelt is as bogus as a three dollar bill. To be "indwelt" refers to being sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit. They were not. The idea that "filled" indicates "indwelling" is also bogus. The Holy Spirit came upon OT Saints to guide them and equip them for service. To claim this is the same as being "sealed" in Christ forever is mistaken.

 

[timtofly]

Our heavenly birth is no more our choice than was our physical birth.

So, There is no hell or separation from God? I think you need some backup for that lie.

 

[timtofly]

Sir, your claim folks could not understand scripture unless indwelt was the mistake which led to the idea the OT Saints must have been indwelt.
The OT Saints gained "approval" through faith, but were not indwelt because they had yet to be made perfect. The claim the OT Saints were indwelt is as bogus as a three dollar bill. To be "indwelt" refers to being sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit. They were not. The idea that "filled" indicates "indwelling" is also bogus. The Holy Spirit came upon OT Saints to guide them and equip them for service. To claim this is the same as being "sealed" in Christ forever is mistaken.

All humanity was sealed and placed in the Lamb's book of life from before creation itself. Being sealed by the Holy Spirit does not mean one will take advantage of that fact. And just because all are sealed does not mean all are going to heaven. We have no choice in our physical birth, but all are free to opt out of their spiritual birth. One can be sealed their whole life and never get a choice. That is the claim the athiest make, that not all will get a choice. They claim to know that is true, but they claim God is not?

So we will not worry about facts we do not know. However, most educated people today have heard about Christ and the Holy Spirit has been working since conception. They can reject the truth.

OT saints were sealed and by the standard definition indwelt. No one can know when the Holy Spirit leaves one, so another fact no one knows. Besides the cross did not make everyone instantly whole or perfect. Some had not even been born yet. Accepting salvation does not seal a person. No person can choose to be sealed. They can only choose to be unsealed. Or do nothing at all and only God knows what happens, another unknown fact. Being filled with the Holy Spirit is a choice. It is taking full advantage of being sealed.

We will not be perfect, even in death, until the 5th and 6th seal is opened on the Lamb's book of life. After the 7th seal is opened, names will start being removed. The Holy Spirit will stop sealing humanity, and Faith will be complete. It will be sight only and for only less than 2.5 years at that. Less time than his first ministry on earth. The harvest of the sheep and goats, wheat and tares will be in full swing. Jesus will, once again with 144K disciples this time, be preaching to all of humanity, giving the house of Jacob one last alter call. While warning the Nations of impending thunderings.

The mistake people make is assuming a dispensational approach to the Holy Spirit, when the truth is that God in all 3 persons have worked together from day one. Yes Pentecost was a different and personal touch just for those chosen. But all have the full power of the Holy Spirit to obey God in individual tasks. It is then up to each individual to obey God. If not, most get into a routine or habit, and that is their driving force. When I say all, I include those who reject God as well. God can still use them for bringing the lost to Christ, and showing the world His glory. To bad in the end, they choose their own works, which to God is nothing.

 

[Dave G]

Did the OT Saints have the Spirit of God dwelling IN them?

No, but they did have His Spirit on them at times.

Yes, they were born again.
For truly, unless one is born from above, they cannot and will not repent from the heart.

 

[Dave G]

All humanity was sealed and placed in the Lamb's book of life from before creation itself.

Then according to this, all of humanity will be saved from being cast into Hell:

" And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." ( Revelation 20:15 ).


There are people who were not written in the Lamb's Book of Life from the foundation of the world:

" The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is." ( Revelation 17:8 ).

Being sealed by the Holy Spirit does not mean one will take advantage of that fact. And just because all are sealed does not mean all are going to heaven.

Whoever is sealed is sealed for a reason.
Because God's favor is upon them.
Also, that seal cannot be broken because it is said to be:

" in whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." ( Ephesians 1:13-14 ).

as well as until when?

" And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption." ( Ephesians 4:30 ).

Men cannot break the seal of God.
God's children are sealed until the redemption of their bodies.

They are the "purchased possession", the bride of Christ whom the Lord loves so much that, even when they were dead in trespasses and sins, He went to the cross for them and performed many other deeds that no one else could do.

 

[Dave G]

We have no choice in our physical birth, but all are free to opt out of their spiritual birth.

Not according to Christ's promises, they are not.
Please see:

John 3:15-18. <---- He that believes is not condemned, but he that does not is condemned already.
John 3:36. <---- Those that believe already have everlasting life.
John 5:24. <---- They shall not come into condemnation, but are passed from death unto life.
John 6:37-40.
John 10:28-29. <---- None shall pluck them out of His hand. None means...no one.
John 11:25-26. <----- Shall never die. See Revelation 20:14-15.

In addition, one cannot "opt out" of what they did not "opt in" to.
Please see:

Romans 8:29-30.
James 1:18.
Ephesians 1:3-13.
Ephesians 2:10.
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14.
John 1:13.

None of His sheep shall be lost.
Tares?
They never were His to begin with...
Please see Matthew 13.

 

[timtofly]

Then according to this, all of humanity will be saved from being cast into Hell.

" And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." ( Revelation 20:15 ).

Whoever is sealed is sealed for a reason.
Because God's favor is upon them.
Also, that seal cannot be broken because it is said to be:

" in whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." ( Ephesians 1:13-14 ).

as well as until when?

" And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption." ( Ephesians 4:30 ).

Men cannot break the seal of God.
God's children are sealed until the redemption of their bodies.

They are the "purchased possession", the bride of Christ whom the Lord loves so much that, even when they were dead in trespasses and sins, He went to the cross for them and performed many other deeds that no one else could do.

Not according to Christ's promises, they are not.
Please see:

John 3:15-18.
John 3:36.
John 5:24.
John 6:37-40.
John 10:28-29.
John 11:25-26.

None of His sheep shall be lost.
Tares?
They never were His to begin with...
Please see Matthew 13.

First off, when is the harvest of sheep and goats?

Otherwise you interpret those verses to mean one thing out of context that is should not. Does the Holy Spirit seal those in Paradise after death? Because if the day of redemption is the day of salvation, then there is a period before salvation and redemption where we are still sealed.

All names have been written down and sealed and the book cannot be opened. Show me in the Bible where a name is added. By that point. People who die at certain times have to be added. Do we go back and add those names from the OT?

God says that all are loved, and that He Wills none to Parish. If we can grieve the Holy Spirit, then we can chose to be removed. If we can grieve the Holy Spirit to the point of no return then why have a sealed book with a few names sealed? Why have a book at all? That means God does purposely send folks to hell and then you have to twist God's very love and very will to twist and change on whims. It is back to works and not grace. You cannot have it five different ways for 5 different opinions.

No, the Holy Spirit does not seal by our choice, because the book was sealed from the beginning of creation even before Adam was created. God did not love certain people from an approved list. The whole point of creation was to allow God choice and change. Eternal God who cannot change, arranged Himself as 3 persons who can change and make choices within His creation.

At the end and in Jesus' teaching it does not say, "I now know you." It claims that an omniscient God never knew them. That means they never existed. Yet at one point they did. What is the point of claiming non-existent people exist? The fact is God did know everyone and they were sealed, and God loved them, and God willed that they do not perish, while at the same time, they can grieve the Holy Spirit. They can choose their works, and not God's Atonement. Adam did choose to disobey. God had a plan, but never forced the plan. In fact even in disobedience God’s Will and Plan was still accomplished. It was never coerced nor destined. Atonement was predestined because God foreknew Adam would disobey. In fact Jesus died both before and after Adam sinned. Even Adam's disobedience was covered before it happened. That is the Glory of God. The Holy Spirit is the power of God’s glory and even Adam was sealed. Even in losing his own spirit, and banished from Paradise, it does not say Adam died in his sins. He was given a choice to accept before his life ended, and it seems to me, he would do so willingly just as easy as he disobeyed willingly. We do the same thing today, and humans like David and Moses disobeyed willingly and still accepted God and His plan.

 

[Dave G]

All names have been written down and sealed and the book cannot be opened. Show me in the Bible where a name is added.

I agree.
There are no names added, and the book cannot be opened until the day of Judgement.

It claims that an omniscient God never knew them. That means they never existed.

He knew Jeremiah:

" Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." ( Jeremiah 1:5 ).

Just as He knew all of His sheep:

" For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." ( Romans 8:29-30 ).

That means that they existed in the mind of God.

I wish you well, sir.
May God bless you both in knowledge and in grace.