Were they really saved?

[Claudia_T]

I hope nobody will mind me telling that story and in such a graphic way but I just wanted to illustrate my point.

and let me tell ya, one time I was on a Christian forum and it was the only other time I had ever told that story and most of the Christians on there started calling me a murderer and telling me I was going to Hell...

it made me start crying... it was horrible.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

I agree with you for the most part, but I feel like I just want to bring something to your attention.

You know how the Bible says this:

1Jn:2:4: He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

well see how it says those who dont keep the commandments are LIARS?

ok well by that definition, any of us who doesnt completely keep the law of God will be in Hell. Because after all, ALL LIARS will be in Hell, right?

But remember when Jesus and the disciples on Sabbath day were rubbing the grains together? and the Pharisees got onto them saying they were breaking the Sabbath? well technically they were but Jesus said, remember when David ate the shewbread in the temple? and it was considered UNLAWFUL for him to do that, right?

Yet if you read on about that story and also about Jesus healing the man with the withered hand but will see that Jesus said that what He and the disciples did was NOT unlawful.... because they were working for God on Sabbath and so it was ok for them to stop and do the grains to have something to eat.

So do you see how sometimes you cannot always go COMPLETELY black and white on these kinds of issues?

Claudia

Suicide is not working for God though, Claudia.

 

[rbell]

Paul gave a listing of those sins which would keep a person from entering heaven. He went on to say, 'But such were some of you; but ye are washed...'

If a person knows what is sin and keeps on in that sin without repentance, God must be true to His Word. God must punish for sin.

But, if man confesses his sin, as the Bible teaches, and repents of that sin, turning away from it, they God will not charge that sin against the one repenting. That sin is cast into the sea never to be remembered against him again.

Suicide is not a sin one can repent of. This thread is about suicide, not about lying, rbell. If you want to start one on lying, go do that.

Nice sidestep.

Take four for HBSMN: If you died today, and there was an unconfessed sin in your life, would you go to hell?

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

His Blood Spoke My Name.


Let me tell you a story to try to illustrate what Im trying to say to you... I hope nobody will mind.

When I was alot younger and I didnt know anything about the Bible, I had to have birth control so I got an IUD. I ended up getting pregnant anyway. It made it to where I couldnt even hardly walk. I had to go to the hospital.

The doctor told me I needed to get the IUD removed soon as possible because if I didnt, I would probably die. He also told me that probably the baby would die if it were removed, a sort of "natural abortion".

I had two children at home already.

So my choice was based on the fact that PROBABLY if I didnt have it removed both I and the baby would die... my husband and my other two children would be without a wife and mother.

So I chose to have the IUD removed.

That way at least I myself would live and my husband and children would have a wife and mother.

When doctors do triage they make decisions like this every day.

And I think today, being now that I am a Christian, that I would make the same choice if I had to.

And so ALL murderers will burn in Hell? I dont know, you tell me?

why would I want to make the choice to murder both MYSELF and my baby?

This way I only killed one person...

see what Im saying?


Claudia

From what I gather, Claudia, you did not even have a relationship with the Lord during that time. How do I gather that? Because of the statement that you did not know anything about the Bible. If you know nothing about the Bible, you can't possibly know the God of the Bible.

That being said, since then, if you made a profession in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, and trusted His blood as the atonement for your sin, the choice to let the baby die rather than yourself is not remembered by Him. It was cast into the depths of the sea to be remembered no more.

'And such were some of you, but ye are washed...'

But if you chose to murder and never repented, you would spend eternity lost if you died.

 

[Claudia_T]

I dont think so, dont you see that by leaving the IUD in I wouldve been choosing to murder myself AND the baby?


Kinda like if you had a spear stuck through you and by allowing someone to pull it out it would save your life... but you just choose to leave it in there instead... allowing yourself to die.

The doctor told me I would probably go into shock and die.

 

[Claudia_T]

and thats what Im saying... we cannot know EVERYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY situation and how God is going to view it, because He alone knows the heart

 

[Amy.G]

and thats what Im saying... we cannot know EVERYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY situation and how God is going to view it, because He alone knows the heart

Claudia, no matter how many times we have disagreed on some things, my heart goes out to you. What a difficult decision you had to make. God does know the heart. Thank goodness. If I were you, I wouldn't even try to defend your decision as there is nothing that needs defending. :1_grouphug:

 

[Eric B]

Eric,

Im not sure on this because I havent read every single post on these "suicide" threads, but I think my position on it is at least a little less to the extreme as are those who think everyone who commits suicide will "go to hell".

I think, as with everything, there has to be SOME cases where everything is not as it seems. I dont think we can really judge anyone ever...

Those are the two things where I kinda part company with that side of it.

But still I think that for the most part, you had better not get the idea that you can commit suicide and still go to heaven.

I can understand this, but then it can get into none of us having any assurance. Yes, once you cross that threshhold, it is too late, and what if we weren't really saved. On the other hand, trying to scare a suicidal person (or anyone else deep in pain) with cold judgment, on the basis that they should be enjoying their pain, and thus do not have faith in Christ, only increases their despair, and can be the thing that pushes them over that edge.

I think PROBABLY that it is a symptom of a much bigger problem in the person's life, namely that they have no true deep faith in God...

...and I think that trials and tribulations bring that out in a person... what was there all along.

Claudia

And that is the problem in this teaching, and it goes beyond just those who say that suicides alway go to hell.
Yes, there was a much bigger problem in the person's life (obviulsoy, he is not doing it for the fun of it). But the problem is, we redefine "faith" to be some sort of good attitude towards pain that would always prevent such feelings or actions. Then, on top of it, we we think the mundane problems we go through today fulfill the "tribulations" the Bible spoke of, so the person "has not persevered till the end", as SFIC put it. That is taking everything out of context!

 

[Eric B]

Paul gave a listing of those sins which would keep a person from entering heaven. He went on to say, 'But such were some of you; but ye are washed...'

If a person knows what is sin and keeps on in that sin without repentance, God must be true to His Word. God must punish for sin.

But, if man confesses his sin, as the Bible teaches, and repents of that sin, turning away from it, they God will not charge that sin against the one repenting. That sin is cast into the sea never to be remembered against him again.

Suicide is not a sin one can repent of. This thread is about suicide, not about lying, rbell. If you want to start one on lying, go do that.

So again, it is the time element, that in order to gain forgiveness, the "sin" must be repented of after each occurrence. (Like Catholics and Campbellists teach. And suicide is not something one "keeps" doing, but an often rash reaction that simply cannot be undone).

 

[xdisciplex]

Will it ever end?

 

[Amy.G]

Will it ever end?

I don't think so.

 

[xdisciplex]

I don't think so.

I really think this board needs a new title. Something like:

Baptist Board : Welcome to the land of confusion

or

Baptist Board : The no.1 place on the net to argue with other believers

 

[tragic_pizza]

BaptistBoard: The Only Army That Kills Our Wounded.

 

[rbell]

Take number five for HBSMN:

If you died today, and there was an unconfessed sin in your life, would you go to hell?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Baptist Board - You don't have to be here.....

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Baptist Board: ..........

 

[rbell]

Baptist Board: Where liberal thoughts by many (but not all) that sin is not frowned on by God and He will allow Christians to commit abominations willingly without repentance and still make it to heaven, abound.

SFIC...

I could fill the page here with posts I've made in the last couple of days about how God is repulsed by sin. Thanks for ignoring those.

It absolutely has amazed me that somehow...on the basis that we believe in God's grace and mercy...that you think we embrace the sin.

Could you please quit putting words in our mouth??? I believe in Romans 6:1. I believe that God will severely punish those who are living sinfully that are His children...sometimes, I believe, He enacts the ultimate earthly punishment.

But you, and a couple of others, have made "a list" of sins that God won't let folks into heaven for. That "list" is being applied inconsistently for one (you have less contempt for those who lie or are fearful than for those who commit suicide), and isn't even biblical besides (can someone say "eisegesis?")

You and I will have a laugh together in heaven...when of the folks you were convinced not being there come and hug your neck.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Baptist Board - You don't have to be here.....

Bite your tongue! I like it here.

 

[Snitzelhoff]

I have to wonder if, by that logic, those who feel a bit of fear while being tortured before they're martyred will wind up in Hell. "The fearful" are on that list, too, remember?

Michael

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

What would ever make anyone believe that God would dessert His care for His children in time of trial to allow them to feel like there is no hope for them, without solution and resolution?" I just cannot find anything in the Word of God that would cause anyone to believe that. As a matter of fact, in the Gospel of John, Jesus said:

• "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."