Were they really saved?

[Amy.G]

Originally Posted by Diggin in da Word
The brain is not the mind, xdx. Why do you insist it is?

Well, last time I checked:

No brain=no mind.

I'd say there may be a connection there.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Diggin in da Word

Do you REALLY believe that all mental problems are caused by demons? seriously?

Claudia

Did Jesus really mean it when he recognized many of these symptoms as demon possession?

Also, they fall under the sin nature.

But regardless, the brain is material, the mind is not

 

[tragic_pizza]

Did Jesus really mean it when he recognized many of these symptoms as demon possession?

Also, they fall under the sin nature.

But regardless, the brain is material, the mind is not

Son, please.

Just stop.

 

[Amy.G]

Originally Posted by xdisciplex
I am simply saying that even a christian cannot operate without his brain ...

I have seen some try.

Me too!

(I'm really enjoying these smilies today. Does that make me mentally ill, er, I mean demon possesed?)

 

[xdisciplex]

Oh boy, I cannot believe it.

This is beyond ridiculous. Is there no christian who has Alzheimer and loses his memory? According to sfic and didw not.

Without your brain you couldn't read the bible and understand it. If anybody here says something different then it's simply ridiculous and not even worth being debated. In fact I read that they put a christian in an MRT and injected dye and they could even show the areas of the brain which were used when somebody "believes", this is why they said that faith is something which happens in the brain. I wouldn't go so far but the brain is always involved. Without brain you're a vegetable and cannot even control your bladder. I hope that nobody here will ever have to find out what you can do as a christian "vegetable"...

 

[tragic_pizza]

You know, xdx, some people's ignorance boggles the mind.

The problem is, other people listen to this foolishness, and pass it on themselves. Stupidity, it seems, breeds.

Pitiful, I know. Hopefully you have more intelligent Christians in Germany than we do in the US...

 

[Claudia_T]

No wonder people think some of us are cold. I didnt realize you guys were talking about someone with mental illness who commits suicide.

 

[Claudia_T]

Diggin

I would think that SOME of the cases were caused by demonic possession because Jesus talked about that but not ALL of them...


Claudia

 

[tragic_pizza]

No wonder people think some of us are cold. I didnt realize you guys were talking about someone with mental illness who commits suicide.

Oh, yeah. See, as long as it doesn't happen to you or someone you love, you can be as cruel and blindly evil as you wish, and it gives you a nice, righteous feeling all over...

 

[xdisciplex]

I bet some here would tell a small girl whose mother committed suicide:

"Sweety, I have to tell you something.
Your mommy is in HELL!!!!
She will burn forever!
Eternal torment.
Tormented by flames.
Picture her in the fire.
Can you see her, sweety?
Can you picture your mommy being consumed by flames?
Good.
And now tell all your friends that your mommy is in hell and that suicide leads to hell.
It's turn or burn."

 

[Claudia_T]

well actually my ex-father in law killed the lady next door then turned the gun on himself and killed himself..

but the doctor said he was mentally ill... he was 80 something years old.

But in my case, I know everyone who commits suicide isnt going to hell, but technically I still believe it is self murder. He went and murdered her then himself.

I dont think someone who is mentally ill and cant help it is going to hell.

and actually we cant know who is going to hell... as I have said.

I just want to make sure I dont go there or encourage anyone to think that suicide is ok for them to do.

and I also think that in some cases of suicide the person is just being self centered. But we cant really know.

I guess you could say thats my over-all view of it, at least so far.

I try to end up with a balanced view of things, but I dont know how well I do at it sometimes.

 

[Claudia_T]

I bet some here would the a small girl whose mother committed suicide:

"Sweety, I have to tell you something.
Your mommy is in HELL!!!!
She will burn forever!
Eternal torment.
Tormented by flames.
Picture her in the fire.
Can you see her, sweety?
Can you picture your mommy being consumed by flames?
Good.
And now tell all your friends that your mommy is in hell and that suicide leads to hell.
It's turn or burn."

Now see, I think comments like that are not good because you could say the same for someone who tells their kid that their mommys in hell for rejecting Christ.

and Im pretty sure most everyone here believes SOMETHING will land some people in hell.

 

[xdisciplex]

and Im pretty sure most everyone here believes SOMETHING will land some people in hell

This is true, but would you say somebody straight in the face that a beloved person is in hell knowing that this will cause even more suffering? I mean even if it's pretty clear I would try not to cause even more grief and simply say that maybe the person repented before they died. This way they can at least hope and don't have to think about a beloved person being in hell all day. I think this is hard to deal with. Imagine a beloved person dies and you know she wasn't saved and then you think about this person now being in hell. How do you even deal with this? This must be terrible.

 

[Claudia_T]

This is true, but would you say somebody straight in the face that a beloved person is in hell knowing that this will cause even more suffering? I mean even if it's pretty clear I would try not to cause even more grief and simply say that maybe they repented before they died.

Yes I think I might say something like that to them.

But honestly the very worst thing in my opinion is the view of Hell most Christians have in the first place. That it burns forever and ever and that people go there right when they die. That would mean that someone who died a thousand years before Hitler burns a thousand years longer in hell than he has. One of these days we should do a bible study on that subject again. Ive known people who mentally flipped out worrying about being tortured in hell forever and ever. I think its the cruelest thing you can do to someone is make them believe a thing like that about God. Thats started in Greek Paganism, was adopted by the Catholic Church, then the Protestants got it from them and dont realize it.

Christians dont realize how they have turned thousands of people away from God by that doctrine alone and make them become Atheists because of it.

The Catholic Church used it, along with the doctrine of Purgatory to get people to pay money to buy their way out of Hell.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Let's see how this sounds in man's humanistic reasoning:

Matthew 8:28-33 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two who were mentally unstable, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding. So the mentally unstable besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine. And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters. And they that kept them fled, and went their ways into the city, and told every thing, and what was befallen to the mentally unstable.

Let's look further:

Mark 5:2-19 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with dissociative identity disorder, Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains: Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him. And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones. But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him, And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou insane person. And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many personalities. And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country. Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. And all the personalities besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the personalities went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand and were choked in the sea. And they that fed the swine fled, and told it in the city, and in the country. And they went out to see what it was that was done. And they come to Jesus, and see him that had multiple personalities, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid. And they that saw it told them how it befell to him that had multiple personalities, and also concerning the swine. And they began to pray him to depart out of their coasts. And when he was come into the ship, he that had had multiple personalities prayed him that he might be with him. Howbeit Jesus suffered him not, but saith unto him, Go home to thy friends, and tell them how great things the Lord hath done for thee, and hath had compassion on thee.

Wow! Modern day humanistic reasoning sure distorts the truth.

 

[Eric B]

Did Jesus really mean it when he recognized many of these symptoms as demon possession?

Also, they fall under the sin nature.

But regardless, the brain is material, the mind is not

So can the brain be physically damged, and the "mind" still worn properly? (Perhaps if the person jsut confesses that the brain's physical damage was God's good will for him, and then he will instantly be "born again"n, and still function normally!)

Again, How else could our mental faculties be affected by drugs, or alcohol?

And again, many physical infirmities people had back then were also attributed to "demons", like "deaf and dumb spirit", person in wheelchair "bound by Satan these 18 years", etc. You cannot generalize things like that, unless you believe that any [physical] infirmity is "spiritual" as well. That's just what the hypercharismatics, such as the faith healers have taken and run wild with, and your brand of fundamentalism rejects them so harshly, but you're starting to sound just like them!

All because people must forcefit the Bible to fit their traditions, instead of admitting their their beliefs are wrong!

 

[Claudia_T]

Let's see how this sounds in man's humanistic reasoning:

Matthew 8:28-33 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two who were mentally unstable, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding. So the mentally unstable besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine. And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters. And they that kept them fled, and went their ways into the city, and told every thing, and what was befallen to the mentally unstable.

Let's look further:

Mark 5:2-19 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with dissociative identity disorder, Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains: Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him. And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones. But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him, And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou insane person. And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many personalities. And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country. Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. And all the personalities besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the personalities went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand and were choked in the sea. And they that fed the swine fled, and told it in the city, and in the country. And they went out to see what it was that was done. And they come to Jesus, and see him that had multiple personalities, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid. And they that saw it told them how it befell to him that had multiple personalities, and also concerning the swine. And they began to pray him to depart out of their coasts. And when he was come into the ship, he that had had multiple personalities prayed him that he might be with him. Howbeit Jesus suffered him not, but saith unto him, Go home to thy friends, and tell them how great things the Lord hath done for thee, and hath had compassion on thee.

Wow! Modern day humanistic reasoning sure distorts the truth.

How in the world did someone stick the words "Multiple Personalities" into your Bible? what version is that? I'd throw that thing away.

and surely you realize that not ALL mental disorders are from demonic possession?

 

[Claudia_T]

If, so Im in trouble, somebody call me an Exorcist

 

[Amy.G]

didw, If a depressed person receives medication (anitdepressant) and they get better, did the demon leave the person? If so, why? Did the medication calm the demon as well? I don't understand how this works. Please explain.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Diggin

I would think that SOME of the cases were caused by demonic possession because Jesus talked about that but not ALL of them...


Claudia

Correct, not all are caused by demonic possession, many commit suicide because of demon oppression. Listening to the lies of spiritual wickedness.

Read Ephesians 6. Our fight is not against flesh and blood. But demonic influences.